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WSJ on Manning Hire and [Redacted]

Strickland33 said:
So, let me get this straight. Ron firing Dino after winning an NCAA Tournament game and going 61-31 while dragging the man's name and reputation - not to mention his players' names and reputations - through the mud publicly for years afterwards didn't contribute to the toxic atmosphere, but a billboard and message boards did?
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Yes, if you are a sheep that works at Wake Forest.
 
If he came BEFORE, we'd have been a consistent Top 25 team.

If he came AFTER, it would have taken him at least two years to flip the squad. We would have sucked for the past two years. Who knows if he would have gotten Harry, but he would have tried as hard.

Remember, in his first year at UVA he was under .500 with a ton more talent than we had. His next year also had much, much more talent than we did.

Bennett might have done better but who knows.


I've watched Wake bball for over 45 years. We were at an historic low on talent. BZZ had ruined a lot of relationships and the ACC was getting stronger.
 
RChildress107 said:
Question for this thread:

What is a reasonable expectation for final record and final ranking in year 3 of this rebuild and year 4?
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I'd like to think 6 more regular season wins should be the average expectation when evaluating the remaining schedule. Next year I feel is going to be a bit different mainly due to my expectations that we have a super soft OOC schedule. With no Xavier, a super soft Paradise Jam, a home challenge game, & Richmond's turn to visit the Joel I don't think it is out of the question for Wake to have 12-13 wins heading into conference play.
If that held true than an expectation of going 9-9 resulting in 21-22 wins should be a realistic goal. I'd be curious to see how the expectations are raised if we win that many games before conference play even if that meant our best win was at home versus a team like Illinois.
 
RJKarl said:
If he came BEFORE, we'd have been a consistent Top 25 team.

If he came AFTER, it would have taken him at least two years to flip the squad. We would have sucked for the past two years. Who knows if he would have gotten Harry, but he would have tried as hard.

Remember, in his first year at UVA he was under .500 with a ton more talent than we had. His next year also had much, much more talent than we did.

Bennett might have done better but who knows.


I've watched Wake bball for over 45 years. We were at an historic low on talent. BZZ had ruined a lot of relationships and the ACC was getting stronger.
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Got it, that makes more sense.
 
PaddyWF said:
Nothing new to anyone here, but don't know if I've seen outside coaches/writers talk about how "toxic" the job is post-[name redacted]. Ouch. Thanks, Ron.
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FWIW, I attended an event right after Manning was hired that featured Larry Brown as the keynote. At the end of his talk he took some questions from the crowd, and knowing his linkage with Manning, I asked him about what he thought of Manning taking the Wake job. He responded by saying that he thought it was a mistake and that he told Manning that before he accepted. He said it was a program that was down at the time, in the most competitive conference in the country, had higher academic standards, and didn't have as much national prestige/visibility as many of the storied programs in the ACC. He said it was seen in coaching circles as a not very attractive position. Take it how you will coming from Brown, but that's what he said.

I think this article touches on a key point: that despite who Wake may have wanted for the job, there wasn't a really big market out there of coaches yearning for our job.
 
MichDeac25 said:
You're an idiot. At a high levels, that's generally the way it's handled. There's no sense in publicly tarnishing someone.
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I think you're the idiot here.

Wouldn't want to tarnish poor [Redacted], the worst coach and biggest d-bag in Wake Forest history, but no hesitation to tarnish Dino, who worked at the school for 9 years, took over a few days after his best friend died, and went 61-31.

Besides using that nasty word that offends you so much, Wellman certainly instructed the SID to distribute the culture change talking points, which were grossly inaccurate in blaming everything in the previous staff.
 
Buttermaker said:
This is interesting: "Manning — who played for a Hall of Famer in Larry Brown at Kansas and was later mentored at his alma mater as everything from a team manager to an assistant by Bill Self — doesn’t even have the luxury of an experienced staff upon which to rely. Only assistant coach Brett Ballard has experience as a head coach — and that was during a two-year stint at Baker University of the NAIA from 2010-12."

You would think as a very young coach he would surround himself with more experienced assistants or former head coaches.
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A good AD would have counseled him to do that. Wellman was too busy forcing Childress on him as his lead assistant.
 
That used to be true, but everyone is on tv now, and the summer camp thing has changed recruiting. Brown is 70.

Wake is a very good hoops job. Brown and clearly UNC overall doesn't like academic rules so not surprising his comment there.
 
As long as Ron Wellman is the Athletic Director at Wake Forest University, the position of head coach of the basketball team will continue to be a less desirable opportunity to experienced, successful candidates.
 
whodatdeac said:
FWIW, I attended an event right after Manning was hired that featured Larry Brown as the keynote. At the end of his talk he took some questions from the crowd, and knowing his linkage with Manning, I asked him about what he thought of Manning taking the Wake job. He responded by saying that he thought it was a mistake and that he told Manning that before he accepted. He said it was a program that was down at the time, in the most competitive conference in the country, had higher academic standards, and didn't have as much national prestige/visibility as many of the storied programs in the ACC. He said it was seen in coaching circles as a not very attractive position. Take it how you will coming from Brown, but that's what he said.

I think this article touches on a key point: that despite who Wake may have wanted for the job, there wasn't a really big market out there of coaches yearning for our job.
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You need to take this with a big grain of salt. For over half a century, Larry Brown has been a dyed-in-the-wool, Carowhina homer. He's one of the original Dean Smith boys.
 
whodatdeac said:
FWIW, I attended an event right after Manning was hired that featured Larry Brown as the keynote. At the end of his talk he took some questions from the crowd, and knowing his linkage with Manning, I asked him about what he thought of Manning taking the Wake job. He responded by saying that he thought it was a mistake and that he told Manning that before he accepted. He said it was a program that was down at the time, in the most competitive conference in the country, had higher academic standards, and didn't have as much national prestige/visibility as many of the storied programs in the ACC. He said it was seen in coaching circles as a not very attractive position. Take it how you will coming from Brown, but that's what he said.

I think this article touches on a key point: that despite who Wake may have wanted for the job, there wasn't a really big market out there of coaches yearning for our job.
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That may as well be taken from Bz era SID talking points. Makes sense that the coaching fraternity would believe the excuses we gave for Bz's poor performance.
 
Amazing no one commented on my previous post...all this discussion of if we got this coach or that coach yet here is a story about THE COACH so many people wanted Shaka "Chan" Smart. He is struggling at Texas. A hot coach from Dayton failed miserably at Ga Tech. K was close to being canned at Duke after his first few seasons. The point is there is no guarantee of success by any coach. Success in one program doesn'the necessarily translate to success elsewhere. At Texas they play dumb basketball and fold in the stretch and the players are carrying the burden of losing. Smart is given a total pass. At Wake coaching is the sole source of blame. Manning is deemed to be the source of all that is bad. Same situation but different point of blame...
 
Strickland33 said:
So, let me get this straight. Ron firing Dino after winning an NCAA Tournament game and going 61-31 while dragging the man's name and reputation - not to mention his players' names and reputations - through the mud publicly for years afterwards didn't contribute to the toxic atmosphere, but a billboard and message boards did?
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Oh Heaven's yes.

P.S. Speaking of a.d.speak, y'all see Yow made Gott grovel to Statefan?
 
Not sure I can put much credence into an article on the decline of Wake basketball that does not once mention Ron Wellman.
 
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