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Zuckerberg throws $100M at Newark public ed

PhDeac said:
I'm fine with that as long as accountability is a mix instead of testing, testing, testing.


Much of common core is the how to teach that robs teachers of their freedom to cater to the students' learning styles.
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I have to admit I am only familiar with one subject area and three to four grade levels but I haven't seen any "how to teach".
 
The number line method making the rounds is a how to teach.

It's hard to fire bad teachers because it's hard to get good teachers. Unions have to protect their numbers so they won't get stuck with fewer teachers, more responsibility, and the same pay.

Neighborhood schools in low income neighborhoods need more resources to make up for the lack of resources in the community.
 
The Mangler said:
Not too difficult to figure out from my post above.
National curriculum is rather straightforward and we've essentially got it with common core. This is what we want students to learn.
Freedom for teachers to use the methods they feel will best serve their students in learning the established curriculum.
Accountability regarding the level of success the teacher has had in teaching their students the curriculum.
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I'm not going to read the book, but I assume you have - what is a roadblock teacher? (Your quotation ends before it defines a roadblock teacher.)
How many roadblock teachers would you say there are?
What percentage of all teachers are roadblock teachers?
To what extent does personal (or professional) interest and dignity, fundamental to most occupations, correlate positively with one's likelihood of being a roadblock teacher?
Are there roadblock teachers in high SES schools? or, are they confined to lower SES school districts in which charters wish to gain a larger foothold or where wealthy philanthropists need a place to invest their money?

I know your definitions - I'm asking whether your goal of teacher autonomy (i.e. freedom), national curricula, and the black box measure of accountability (what is it, how do we derive it, how do we adjust for different environmental and "capital" inequalities? etc.) is a reasonable one. These types of claims, with the policy recommendation of increasing charter schools (in spite of empirical evidence that suggests this isn't a great idea), strike me as particularly untenable.
 
Ph,
To answer your question, accountability is the ability for management to reward good performance and prune poor performers. This is most applicable to the present discussion in that unions have insulated poor performers from accountability by lobbying for the continuance of the antiquated practice of tenure. McCrory is arguing for increasing pay and removing tenure to hold poor performers accountable and likewise reward those who exceed standards.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk
 
PhDeac said:
The number line method making the rounds is a how to teach.

It's hard to fire bad teachers because it's hard to get good teachers. Unions have to protect their numbers so they won't get stuck with fewer teachers, more responsibility, and the same pay.

Neighborhood schools in low income neighborhoods need more resources to make up for the lack of resources in the community.
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The problem of firing bad, unionized teachers is grossly overstated, IMO.

I'm confused about your line on teacher unions, though I might be reading it wrong. Is it not in a professional organization's best interest to better conditions, standardize grievance and disciplinary procedure, and better compensation for its employees? I don't see this as a "union's self-interest" issue, especially since a lot of states have fairly weak if non-existant teacher unions. Seems the big bad unionized teacher straw man is particularly irrelevant these days.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Ph,
To answer your question, accountability is the ability for management to reward good performance and prune poor performers. This is most applicable to the present discussion in that unions have insulated poor performers from accountability by lobbying for the continuance of the antiquated practice of tenure. McCrory is arguing for increasing pay and removing tenure to hold poor performers accountable and likewise reward those who exceed standards.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk
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Increasing pay and removing tenure gives poor teachers the same pay as better teachers and removes a reward for those who exceed standards and the school wants to retain.

And you didn't bother to address the whole point which is the burdensome regulations that come with accountability.
 
PhDeac said:
The number line method making the rounds is a how to teach.

It's hard to fire bad teachers because it's hard to get good teachers. Unions have to protect their numbers so they won't get stuck with fewer teachers, more responsibility, and the same pay.


Neighborhood schools in low income neighborhoods need more resources to make up for the lack of resources in the community.
Click to expand...

1) I view the number line as content rather than a method.
2) I'm less optimistic than you about additional resources making their way to schools in low SES neighborhoods, although I'm not sure how to get around the problem.
 
The number line is content. The number line as the preferred way to teach addition and subtraction is a method.
 
PhDeac said:
The number line is content. The number line as the preferred way to teach addition and subtraction is a method.
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....and multiplication is the method for teaching repeated addition, while exponents are the way to teach repeated multiplication?
 
No. That doesn't even make sense. Multiplication and exponents are content. Ways to teach multiplication include various ways to teach time tables.
 
PhDeac said:
No. That doesn't even make sense. Multiplication and exponents are content. Ways to teach multiplication include various ways to teach time tables.
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So is understanding that multiplication is repeated addition and that exponents are repeated multiplication a method or content?
 
PhDeac said:
No. That doesn't even make sense. Multiplication and exponents are content. Ways to teach multiplication include various ways to teach time tables.
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Repeated post.
 
I don't know how we got into this pedantry, but Mangler: do you mean that you think that the content should be determined on a national level and pedagogy falls within the realm of teacher autonomy?

I can agree with that, but I still don't understand how standardized accountability measures jive with this sort of opinion.
 
jhmd2000 said:
Ph,
To answer your question, accountability is the ability for management to reward good performance and prune poor performers. This is most applicable to the present discussion in that unions have insulated poor performers from accountability by lobbying for the continuance of the antiquated practice of tenure. McCrory is arguing for increasing pay and removing tenure to hold poor performers accountable and likewise reward those who exceed standards.

Sent from my SCH-I435 using Tapatalk
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The all-powerful NC teacher union strikes again! Teachers are appointed for life only for their extravagant pensions to drain state coffers after retiring in 15 years while getting 3 months paid vacation every year. Don't they only work like 6 hours a day too?
 
WFFaithful said:
The all-powerful NC teacher union strikes again! Teachers are appointed for life only for their extravagant pensions to drain state coffers after retiring in 15 years while getting 3 months paid vacation every year. Don't they only work like 6 hours a day too?
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No. They don't.
 
I think true "roadblock" teachers are pretty rare, and they could be made even rarer if teacher training and ongoing support were better. Teachers are too often thrown into the fire right out of school without enough mentoring and coaching, and experienced teachers are expected to keep up with constantly changing top down expectations without much coaching either. Part of Shyamalan's prescription for success is principals who are strong leaders, and who spend their days constantly observing, interacting with, and coaching teachers in the classroom, not pushing paper behind a desk and dealing with parents and making sure the football field is lined. This is a model developed in the private charter world especially by KIPP I believe, and it ought to be more widely adopted.

At the same time, we should not pretend that there aren't some systems (NYC I know to be one) where it is damn near impossible to fire a teacher. Again, there is no meaningful teacher's union in NC or most southern states, but there is in many states and their pathological determination to keep the most incompetent and even abusive teachers on the payroll is a real problem in those places.

My personal opinion is that tenure for K-12 teachers is for the most part an outmoded concept and should be phased out. The particular way the NC legislature went about it was ham-handed and unconstitutional. The old teachers will likely get to keep their tenure unless the Pubs succeed in packing the NC Supreme Court, but even then I think they are protected under the federal constitution. In any case, new teachers coming in are going to be on contracts and ineligible for tenure. Eventually, the GA will come up with a way to constitutionally buy out the old teachers' tenure rights.
 
Deacon923 said:
I think true "roadblock" teachers are pretty rare, and they could be made even rarer if teacher training and ongoing support were better. Teachers are too often thrown into the fire right out of school without enough mentoring and coaching, and experienced teachers are expected to keep up with constantly changing top down expectations without much coaching either. Part of Shyamalan's prescription for success is principals who are strong leaders, and who spend their days constantly observing, interacting with, and coaching teachers in the classroom, not pushing paper behind a desk and dealing with parents and making sure the football field is lined. This is a model developed in the private charter world especially by KIPP I believe, and it ought to be more widely adopted.

At the same time, we should not pretend that there aren't some systems (NYC I know to be one) where it is damn near impossible to fire a teacher. Again, there is no meaningful teacher's union in NC or most southern states, but there is in many states and their pathological determination to keep the most incompetent and even abusive teachers on the payroll is a real problem in those places.

My personal opinion is that tenure for K-12 teachers is for the most part an outmoded concept and should be phased out. The particular way the NC legislature went about it was ham-handed and unconstitutional. The old teachers will likely get to keep their tenure unless the Pubs succeed in packing the NC Supreme Court, but even then I think they are protected under the federal constitution. In any case, new teachers coming in are going to be on contracts and ineligible for tenure. Eventually, the GA will come up with a way to constitutionally buy out the old teachers' tenure rights.
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Do tell.
 
Deacon923 said:
Ask Judge Hobgood, not me. http://www.wral.com/judge-stripping-veteran-teachers-of-tenure-rights-unconstitutional/13650846/
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Hobgood is great judge. This will be interesting to watch.

eta: If you take the position that an unvested pension is already earned (if so, what does "unvested" mean?) then I guess you have the right to complete the contract under the understanding that you were entitled to do so. I could see that, but I could also see the State being able to prorate its obligations based on completion to date, and then replace it with higher compensation. Unilaterally cancelling it without just compensation would clearly be a "taking", but if the State gave you the option of either playing out the string or take an annuity based upon service to date coupled with higher compensation, I think that would be a good choice for teachers to decide for themselves what they wanted. Anyone who wasn't already in the chute for their pension would obviously not have that option, and instead would get a defined contrib plan like the rest of us.*
* - Which interestingly enough would give teachers more power over their employment status, because they could walk if they didn't like their recent treatment (i.e. five years without a raise comes to mind) without forfeiting their accrued retirement. That sounds a lot like the ACA's argument for de-coupling health care and employment.

"Taking" doesn't mean that I've got an unfettered right to retain whatever I want for however long I want it. If it did, every road in America would stay two lanes forever. The failure to pay just compensation constitutes a "taking."
 
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