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Grobe has lost my respect

bobknightfan said:
I want the WF football team to win every time it goes on the field (I don't give a fuck if the school dropped basketball. That sport sucks today, in my opinion.)....I'm just reasonable enough to know that it probably isn't going to happen in the majority of the games. I don't have any "end game", and I'm not trying to gain any converts to anything. I want the school to do everything within its power to win, as long as that doesn't involve cheating or lowering its academic standards. Winning football games is not the main mission of Wake Forest University...though it seems to be to some people on these boards. Beyond that, I don't know what to say to you. I went to my first WF football (and basketball) game in 1958, when I was 11 years old....so I guess I might be looking at everything from a different perspective than many posters on these boards. Simply put, my life today does not revolve around how many games that Wake Forest wins. There was a time when it probably did, but that's not the situation today. Now, I want them to win, but at the same time I've come to realize that there are many, many things in life that are more important.
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Wait, didn't we?
 
Azdeac said:
Yes. Is this the same academic disadvantage that Stanford, Duke, Vanderbilt, Northwestern, and Notre Dame suffer from?
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The way people around compare us to this group of schools constantly amaze me.

Endowment: Stanford 17 billion (#4 in the US), Duke 5.5 billion (#15), Vanderbilt 3.4 billion (#22), Northwestern 7.1 billion (#10), Notre Dame 6.3 billion (#13)

Wake $900 million

Enrollment: Stanford 7,063, Duke 6,484, Vanderbilt 6,796, Northwestern 8,000, Notre Dame 8,475.

Wake 4,775

Stanford .596 winning%, 1 National Championship, 14 Conf Champ., 24 bowl games

Duke .486 win%, 17 Conf Champ., 9 bowl games

Vanderbilt .498 win%, 14 Conf Champ, 6 bowl games

Northwestern .442 win%, 8 Conf Champ., 11 bowl games

Notre Dame .733 win%, 13 National Championships, 32 bowl games

Wake .411 win%, 2 Conf Champ., 10 bowl games

Where exactly do we compare to these schools? All of our academic standards are difficult. So I guess we should ask why Emory doesn't have a successful football team?
 
89DeaconMike said:
The way people around compare us to this group of schools constantly amaze me.

Endowment: Stanford 17 billion (#4 in the US), Duke 5.5 billion (#15), Vanderbilt 3.4 billion (#22), Northwestern 7.1 billion (#10), Notre Dame 6.3 billion (#13)

Wake $900 million

Enrollment: Stanford 7,063, Duke 6,484, Vanderbilt 6,796, Northwestern 8,000, Notre Dame 8,475.

Wake 4,775

Stanford .596 winning%, 1 National Championship, 14 Conf Champ., 24 bowl games

Duke .486 win%, 17 Conf Champ., 9 bowl games

Vanderbilt .498 win%, 14 Conf Champ, 6 bowl games

Northwestern .442 win%, 8 Conf Champ., 11 bowl games

Notre Dame .733 win%, 13 National Championships, 32 bowl games

Wake .411 win%, 2 Conf Champ., 10 bowl games

Where exactly do we compare to these schools? All of our academic standards are difficult. So I guess we should ask why Emory doesn't have a successful football team?
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good post.
 
bobknightfan said:
Stanford? You're seriously trying to compare Wake Forest with Stanford? Counting grad students, Stanford has 16,000 students....with a $17 billion endowment. It has played in 13 Rose Bowls and had a Heisman Trophy winner. You think WF can compare with that?
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He meant that we're the Stanford of the Piedmont.
 
Where exactly do we compare to these schools? All of our academic standards are difficult. So I guess we should ask why Emory doesn't have a successful football team?
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Emory is not in the ACC and Emory does not by $2.3M to their head football coach. And I don't expect us to be Stanford or Notre Dame, but we got rolled by BC. My complaint is focused completely on Lobo's ineptitude (which was on full display last night and what the analysts spent 60% of the game talking about) and Grobe's refusal to move in another direction.
 
Our endowment and enrollment could be 100x bigger but our coaches and administration don't care if we win.
 
bobknightfan;1408417[B said:
]Again, those three years were an outlier..[/B].for reasons others have posted (Riley Skinner, as much as anything)....not something that had happened even once in the last 80 years. We are not going to have a winning record and contend for the conference championship on a regular basis....no matter who the AD or coach is.

Do you think that a bunch of top prospects around the nation are going to want to come to WF...with a strenuous academic schedule and almost no social life....and play before 20,000 fans on ESPN3 instead of going to a Georgia, Florida, Alabama, USC or Michigan...and have a ridiculously easy academic requirement, great social life, all kinds of NFL connections....and play before 90-100,000 fans in a "Game Day" atmosphere on national television?

Do you think that just getting a coach & AD with enough "burning desire", as PH puts it, can entice bunches of those kinds of players....and, unlike basketball, it takes many of them in football....to give up all of that and come to Winston-Salem to play for WF? People who answer "yes" to that question are out of their collective minds.....but dream on, if it makes you happy.
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The point that you, Wellman, and the other LOWF'ers continually do not understand is that those "3 years" Shouldn't be outliers. Those "3 years" prove that IT IS POSSIBLE TO WIN AT WAKE FOREST! Clean house and get a damn AD who wants to win and who will listen to what the fan base wants.
 
BG (Before Grobe) Our all time winning % was 39%. We had 1 Conference Championship and 5 bowl games. BTW
 
bobknightfan said:
I want the WF football team to win every time it goes on the field (I don't give a fuck if the school dropped basketball. That sport sucks today, in my opinion.)....I'm just reasonable enough to know that it probably isn't going to happen in the majority of the games. I don't have any "end game", and I'm not trying to gain any converts to anything. I want the school to do everything within its power to win, as long as that doesn't involve cheating or lowering its academic standards. Winning football games is not the main mission of Wake Forest University...though it seems to be to some people on these boards. Beyond that, I don't know what to say to you. I went to my first WF football (and basketball) game in 1958, when I was 11 years old....so I guess I might be looking at everything from a different perspective than many posters on these boards. Simply put, my life today does not revolve around how many games that Wake Forest wins. There was a time when it probably did, but that's not the situation today. Now, I want them to win, but at the same time I've come to realize that there are many, many things in life that are more important.
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I do believe people should realize that to become ultimately successful at what is currently called the BCS level, we have to alter some of our academic standards. It's what, from my understanding, the successful public and private academic schools have already done, including Vandy, Stanford, Northwestern, UVa, UNC, Duke, Notre Dame, BC, etc. School roughly equal to or better than Wake's ranking. Being a pariah institution will only harm Wake athletically and academically. To participate at this level, you have to be able to sign some of the higher ranked players, and many of these don't match the vision of what Wake seems to believe its cultural footprint should include. Again, the cost of competing at the BCS level. I agreed with Prosser that the teams that win are those with the most future NBA/NFL players. While we won't challenge the powers that be, we don't have to. We just need to achieve a >.500 record overall (in football) to be "successful". And if Wake doesn't want those players on campus, then retreat from that level to one more comfortable and compatible with the apparent Bible college culture that Hatch, the BOT and Wellman seem to have in mind.
 
bobknightfan said:
And I agree with all of that (in spite of the insults you like to hurl at me). ;)
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Fair enough. We have the resources and opportunity to play much better football consistently than we are. We are no Stanford but we can be good enough to win consistently in our conference and not be an inept embarrassment in games where we are outmatched. With our schedule this year, we should be able to win 6 games. ND and Stanford would fire their entire AD for that kind of performance, but for us that would be acceptable IMO, as long as we were getting the most out of our players.
 
I think people are saying that they expect more out of the coaching staff and team's performance. What we saw last night was stubborn coaches not playing to player's strengths. "We are going to keep running the option until we are good at it" is Grobe's way of saying he refuses to change the game plan, which is something a comfortable coach who doesn't expect consequences would say.

I don't expect Wake to compete for an ACC championship in football every year, but I certainly expect our coaches to, well, coach better than they did last night. It was just awful and is a direct reflection on the coaching staff.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
Fair enough. We have the resources and opportunity to play much better football consistently than we are. We are no Stanford but we can be good enough to win consistently in our conference and not be an inept embarrassment in games where we are outmatched. With our schedule this year, we should be able to win 6 games. ND and Stanford would fire their entire AD for that kind of performance, but for us that would be acceptable IMO, as long as we were getting the most out of our players.
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I agree with this.
 
89DeaconMike said:
BG (Before Grobe) Our all time winning % was 39%. We had 1 Conference Championship and 5 bowl games. BTW
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Nobody is arguing we have a winning tradition. We just have very bad coaching right now. What Wake Forest did in the 1950s doesn't matter to anyone right now (except maybe BKF). We have invested in facilities, invested in salaries, and we look like this. Unacceptable. There are coaches out there who would recruit better and get more out of our players. We do not need to be Stanford, but we can be much better for much less money.
 
Meh, mismanagement of those players to an extent. But I don't want to open the Gaudio can of worms in this thread. Nevertheless, those players are the ones you must have to be successful.
 
Turd Ferguson said:
Nobody is arguing we have a winning tradition. We just have very bad coaching right now. What Wake Forest did in the 1950s doesn't matter to anyone right now (except maybe BKF). We have invested in facilities, invested in salaries, and we look like this. Unacceptable. There are coaches out there who would recruit better and get more out of our players. We do not need to be Stanford, but we can be much better for much less money.
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TF, totally agree with this quote...I am only a few years younger than BKF and do remember the teams from early 60's on...Until the leadership is changed @ the highest level, mediocrity will likely continue. Of course the issues from Hatch to Wellman, etc. have been rehashed numerous times & that horse has been beaten to death. If the BOT's refuse to institute change, then what we have been witnessing the last several years will likely continue. Has APATHY set in, Hell Yes!!! There are many alternatives to WFU Sports...
 
We were underprepared and disorganized last night to a degree that was, quite frankly, shocking, even to WF fans. That is on the coaches, and is due to either laziness or inefficiency or both. There were times when it absolutely looked like a D-III or upper level high school game. There is zero excuse for that to go on at an ACC school. I have not changed my level of support for the DC during Grobe's tenure, but I am at wits' end. I cannot believe decision makers at WF think our FB and basketball programs don't need major interventions right now.
 
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