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Coaching Search Digest *Welcome Coach Manning!**

FckVwls said:
Tulsa had won a lot of games in the years before, but Manning inherited a nearly blank roster. Getting 17-16 KP 178 out of that year 1 roster composition might have been poor. But it's also possible that it was masterful and Bill Self himself couldn't have done much better. In comparison, Bz was only able to get KP 270 with his mostly freshman team year 1 with much much more talented recruits.

We just don't know on Manning. He might suck or he might be awesome.
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I mean, this is all well and good, but if you can't see the parallel, pre-emptive excuse machine in motion, then I don't know what to tell you. Manning inherited a five-man class (probably Tulsa's best class based on the 12 years of recruiting data that exists), recruited two guys on top of it, and went into the next two seasons with the guys that Wojcik recruited as his top-5 scorers, and 4/5 best rebounders... Your spin is legit spin and it's convincing, but it's spin.
 
Strickland33 said:
I mean, this is all well and good, but if you can't see the parallel, pre-emptive excuse machine in motion, then I don't know what to tell you. Manning inherited a five-man class (probably Tulsa's best class based on the 12 years of recruiting data that exists), recruited two guys on top of it, and went into the next two seasons with the guys that Wojcik recruited as his top-5 scorers, and 4/5 best rebounders... Your spin is legit spin and it's convincing, but it's spin.
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Tulsa's two best returning players transferred right before Manning arrived. He had the fifth least experienced team in all of college basketball. According to the people who know something about CUSA (not me), Manning had basically nothing, as Tulsa was predicted to finish dead last in their preseason poll. Instead they went 8-8, finished fifth, and made the conference tourney semifinals. Then in year two he surprisingly won the conference title. How is that not a success story? It's clear overachievement in two straight years, ending with a conference title.
 
ArlingtonDeac said:
Tulsa's two best returning players transferred right before Manning arrived. He had the fifth least experienced team in all of college basketball. According to the people who know something about CUSA (not me), Manning had basically nothing, as Tulsa was predicted to finish dead last in their preseason poll. Instead they went 8-8, finished fifth, and made the conference tourney semifinals. Then in year two he surprisingly won the conference title. How is that not a success story? It's clear overachievement in two straight years, ending with a conference title.
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Again, fine and good (and I agree with a lot of what you posted), but it sounds a lot like the narratives we were forcefed about [name redacted]. That's all I'm saying.
 
Strickland33 said:
Again, fine and good (and I agree with a lot of what you posted), but it sounds a lot like the narratives we were forcefed about [name redacted]. That's all I'm saying.
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I never saw the slightest glimmer of potential for success at Wake from [name redacted]'s resume. Nothing. You couldn't even craft an argument, IMO, and I said as much repeatedly at the time. I couldn't see the two more differently, and that was/is true from the jump.
 
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ArlingtonDeac said:
Tulsa's two best returning players transferred right before Manning arrived. He had the fifth least experienced team in all of college basketball. According to the people who know something about CUSA (not me), Manning had basically nothing, as Tulsa was predicted to finish dead last in their preseason poll. Instead they went 8-8, finished fifth, and made the conference tourney semifinals. Then in year two he surprisingly won the conference title. How is that not a success story? It's clear overachievement in two straight years, ending with a conference title.
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I don't think we can discount he sat next to Self for years and watched how a basketball program should be run. He may not be a home run but I think he's going to be a good coach. He's off to a great start. But let's also remember that Self was at Tulsa and Manning may want to hang there and build up that program and position himself for the Kansas job one day. I think that is more likely than Manning coming to Wake. One of our only pluses is that he comes home. If I were Manning I'd probably stay at Tulsa.
 
ArlingtonDeac said:
I never saw the slightest glimmer of potential for success at Wake from [Redacted]'s resume. Nothing. You couldn't even craft an argument, IMO, and I said as much repeatedly at the time. I couldn't see the two differently, and that was/is true from the jump.
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That was my thinking at the time as well. The last four years have been a very predictable train wreck in slow motion.
 
DirkTheDeac said:
I don't think we can discount he sat next to Self for years and watched how a basketball program should be run. He may not be a home run but I think he's going to be a good coach. He's off to a great start. But let's also remember that Self was at Tulsa and Manning may want to hang there and build up that program and position himself for the Kansas job one day. I think that is more likely than Manning coming to Wake. One of our only pluses is that he comes home. If I were Manning I'd probably stay at Tulsa.
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All biases aside, I don't see an argument where staying at Tulsa is the better long term move for Manning.

Wake is in the best conference in all of basketball once Louisville gets here, it offers double the money, he can prove himself on the recruiting trail at a major conference team, and he can compete with the true blue bloods of college basketball.

To me it is a no-brainer. I would say the same about any other team in the conference honestly.
 
Wake is fucking awesome job. That should be clear to anyone with half a brain, which is why it's so frustrating that Wellman and the administration can't figure this shit out. If Manning chooses Tulsa, it's not because it's a better job.

Also, it's pretty telling that once the Manning stuff broke OGB and Cookout were so demoralized that they just stopped caring about this thread.
 
This whole "people are rationalizing this just like [name redacted]!!!!!" argument is dumb.

For one thing, It is often made against people who never liked [Redacted].
 
Bill Self is in his early 50s. I doubt Manning is thinking about positioning himself for Ksnsas. That could be 15-20 years.
 
ChrisL68 said:
This whole "people are rationalizing this just like [name redacted]!!!!!" argument is dumb.

For one thing, It is often made against people who never liked [Redacted].
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Why is it dumb? Are people rationalizing yet another bad basketball hire? Without a doubt. Is that what happened when we hired Buzz? Without a doubt.

Just because someone claims they were Buzzout from the start (everyone seems to say this now) really has nothing to do with what's happening with this Manning business.
 
Who fucking cares if he leaves at some point? If that happens, it will be because he's had success here. Sounds OK to me.
 
bigdoublezero said:
Why is it dumb? Are people rationalizing yet another bad basketball hire? Without a doubt. Is that what happened when we hired Buzz? Without a doubt.

Just because someone claims they were Buzzout from the start (everyone seems to say this now) really has nothing to do with what's happening with this Manning business.
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Just because you have decided this is going to turn out to be a bad hire doesn't mean the rest of us have. And let me tell you, the national media who were saying WTF when we hired [Redacted] think this is a reasonable hire for the most part. It might not work out, but it isn't close to the same.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Just because you have decided this is going to turn out to be a bad hire doesn't mean the rest of us have. And let me tell you, the national media who were saying WTF when we hired [Redacted] think this is a reasonable hire for the most part. It might not work out, but it isn't close to the same.
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How do we know Manning is the hire?
 
ChrisL68 said:
Just because you have decided this is going to turn out to be a bad hire doesn't mean the rest of us have. And let me tell you, the national media who were saying WTF when we hired [Redacted] think this is a reasonable hire for the most part. It might not work out, but it isn't close to the same.
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See, that's the thing. I haven't decided that it's going to turn out to be a bad hire. It is a bad hire -- because it's a bad risk. There are better options on the board. I understand the risk profiles implicit in the different options, and Danny Manning isn't the best hire for Wake. That's aside from the fact that he's played us like a fiddle all week and trumpeted to the rest of the world what we already know about the inept AD. Or that we're going to shell out a Top 20 salary for him.

You don't seem to understand that "WTF, Buzz?" and "WTF, Danny Manning?" are not equivalent -- the rationalization process for a the outcome of a botched coaching search is.

As I've said on a bunch of other threads, if we hire Manning, I'm #ManUp all the way. But to make a bunch of excuses and to pretend like this is a good hire is stupid. It's not. Nevertheless, it's also totally possible Manning does a great job -- and I really sincerely hope he does.
 
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