Pulse of the Fanbase: End of Year 2 of the Manning Era

[Strickland33]

I don't have any interest in making excuses for them. Replicating the success of the 2015 class in 2016 was a reasonable expectation. They failed to do that. So we're now in the position of hoping those recruits outperform their rankings. Maybe one or two of them will manage to do that but we needed a class where they all could be expected to contribute and that simply won't happen.

titcr

There are some interesting players in the 2016 class, but the odds of them all exceeding expectations are just awful. Hell, of the Sensational 7, only one player (Devin) exceeded expectations at Wake Forest; Codi maybe met expectations last year. (Cav and Moto appear to be exceeding expectations elsewhere, but they played to their rankings at Wake.) I'll personally never make the mistake again of believing the AD hype that rankings don't matter. If the past six years are any indication, then they absolutely do.

 

[Shake]

Of course rankings matter...just look at the top 25 each year and there will be a correlation. I believe next year's class is ranked 9th in the ACC...not exactly the boost you'll need to make an NIT run next year.

 

[Ayo]

Of course rankings matter...just look at the top 25 each year and there will be a correlation. I believe next year's class is ranked 9th in the ACC...not exactly the boost you'll need to make an NIT run next year.

And it's that high because of the quantity of recruits. Remember the Sensational 7 was ranked 23rd overall because of that.

 

[sailordeac]

congrats for the "program flatlined" tag

good work Ron and Nathan

 

[PTownDeac]

Of course rankings matter...just look at the top 25 each year and there will be a correlation. I believe next year's class is ranked 9th in the ACC...not exactly the boost you'll need to make an NIT run next year.

There will be no NIT run next season with 8 freshmen and sophomores.

 

[morrison2951]

Yep. Sadly the post season drought will likely continue next season....

Expect to see more dumb TO's and poor FT shooting from the Diaper Deacs.

 

[ChrisL68]

NIT?

 

[Demonwolverine]

It's strange to hope that we are more inconsistent next year. We definitely should have gotten some upsets that we just didn't this year, and I think we should be in the same boat next year. There will be droughts, as with any young team, but hopefully we'll be tougher mentally and can pull at least a couple games out next year that this years team couldn't. It's weird, no matter how irrational, how much better I would feel about next year's team if we still had Hudson.

 

[daaberry]

There will be no NIT run next season with 8 freshmen and sophomores.

That's OK, we will all be feeling good after the 30 something game where the announcers are trying to boost are spirits with comments about how young this team is. It will be the 7th straight season where we've been told that it is a young roster & next season looks bright. Most programs don't need their freshman to become seniors to get a taste of winning.

 

[Wrangor]

Anyone that marks higher than a 7 isn't being honest. Heck, I am still mildly optimistic and I marked a 4. Next year will be a big test for Manning. AT that point there are no excuses. We should have been much better this year, there is no doubt about that. I think for me the most troubling part about this year is that we were actually pretty good in the first 1/3 of the season, and we then regressed pretty much on a downward arc for the rest of the year.

The one interesting, and somewhat encouraging note to this year is that we seemed to play much better basketball when either CMM or Devin was not on the floor. I am not going to claim causation, but the correlation was there. We simply played better team basketball when those two weren't out there. Manning still has a lot of growing to do as a coach, and it drives me nuts that he rarely shows any emotion. You don't need to be Gary Williams to show your team (and your fans) that you are invested in every dribble on the court. I realize that a lot of that is personality driven, and I am not going to make the stupid claim that Manning doesn't care, but it would be nice to see some more fire out of him, for both the good plays and the bad plays. You don't have to act like fan to encourage your team, and you don't have to paint your face to criticize the refs with some gusto.

Our defensive schemes still need massive work, and Manning needs to find an identity for his offense. Too often we seem to be running plays for the sake of running them without seemingly any thought to a higher strategy. Part of that is probably due to the fact that CMM and Devin don't fit into Manning's system (this seems to clearly be the case) as we don't really see any replications of them in the recruiting class. Manning seems to like true centers with size, stretch 4's that can score, and a lot of shooters. I look forward to next year, but I am nervous. If we aren't at least close to an NIT next year, then I don't see much hope for Manning lasting beyond his 4th year. I think Manning deserves 4 years regardless of what happens, but I don't think we should be too hesitant to pull the trigger at that point if he doesn't work out.

Manning will definitely leave us a better program than the one he inherited, but it still remains to be seen if he will restore us to true respectability in the ACC.

 

[DeaconSig]

Anyone that marks higher than a 7 isn't being honest. Heck, I am still mildly optimistic and I marked a 4. Next year will be a big test for Manning. AT that point there are no excuses. We should have been much better this year, there is no doubt about that. I think for me the most troubling part about this year is that we were actually pretty good in the first 1/3 of the season, and we then regressed pretty much on a downward arc for the rest of the year.

The one interesting, and somewhat encouraging note to this year is that we seemed to play much better basketball when either CMM or Devin was not on the floor. I am not going to claim causation, but the correlation was there. We simply played better team basketball when those two weren't out there. Manning still has a lot of growing to do as a coach, and it drives me nuts that he rarely shows any emotion. You don't need to be Gary Williams to show your team (and your fans) that you are invested in every dribble on the court. I realize that a lot of that is personality driven, and I am not going to make the stupid claim that Manning doesn't care, but it would be nice to see some more fire out of him, for both the good plays and the bad plays. You don't have to act like fan to encourage your team, and you don't have to paint your face to criticize the refs with some gusto.

Our defensive schemes still need massive work, and Manning needs to find an identity for his offense. Too often we seem to be running plays for the sake of running them without seemingly any thought to a higher strategy. Part of that is probably due to the fact that CMM and Devin don't fit into Manning's system (this seems to clearly be the case) as we don't really see any replications of them in the recruiting class. Manning seems to like true centers with size, stretch 4's that can score, and a lot of shooters. I look forward to next year, but I am nervous. If we aren't at least close to an NIT next year, then I don't see much hope for Manning lasting beyond his 4th year. I think Manning deserves 4 years regardless of what happens, but I don't think we should be too hesitant to pull the trigger at that point if he doesn't work out.

Manning will definitely leave us a better program than the one he inherited, but it still remains to be seen if he will restore us to true respectability in the ACC.

As to the 1st bold, what system do you think he is trying to run (legit question, not being snarky)?
As to the 2nd bold, I'm not even sure that is the case. People (cough, Strickland, cough) were sure that the CMM/Thomas class would be a boon to any coach who replaced [Redacted], and we see how that turned out. Our guys don't value the basketball, show very little awareness of team defensive principles, and we don't have any transcendent talents in the program or on the way in. Heck, if Moore has a great year next year, he is gone to the pros (as he should).

I just don't see Coach Manning as doing anything other than treading water where fuckface was.

 

[BirdinBama]

Someone call me after Wellman's gone. That guy is totally responsible for this shit.

 

[pourdeac]

Yep. Sadly the post season drought will likely continue next season....

Expect to see more dumb TO's and poor FT shooting from the Diaper Deacs.

The worst FT shooters were/are Bz recruits. Watson 56%, McClinton 57%, DT 58% (ouch), CMM 66%. Wilbekin (85%), Dinos (77%)...both up from last year. Crawford 68% and Collins 69% were OK and I expect improvement. Moore was only 58%, but Woods shot 68% last year. Take Bz's guys out and we shot 70.9%...which would be 130th instead of 307th in the NCAAs.

TO-wise....the 4 worst TO/game players were DT, CMM, Hudson, and Crawford....10.5/game. 3 of them will be gone. Crawford got better throughout the season too. Woods only averaged 1 per game at Charlotte playing 25min a game.

I dunno. The glaring problems seem like the Bz recruits to me in both cases. I think a lot of these problems are going to resolve without CMM and DT.

 

[warak]

I actually agree with Wrangor. CMM is clearly not a Manning style player and DT was a great college player but isn't a stretch 4 or a big center.

I would like to see what happens in the next few years with HIS players (and a full scholarship squad). We are also going through coaching growing pains...if he does well, I hope we are not taking our knocks to get him ready for Kansas (or the like).

I remain cautiously optimistic, but that is my nature.

 

[DeacDaddy]

I actually agree with Wrangor. CMM is clearly not a Manning style player and DT was a great college player but isn't a stretch 4 or a big center.

I would like to see what happens in the next few years with HIS players (and a full scholarship squad). We are also going through coaching growing pains...if he does well, I hope we are not taking our knocks to get him ready for Kansas (or the like).

I remain cautiously optimistic, but that is my nature.

You still think Manning could be on his eventual way to Kansas? "Cautiously optimistic" is underselling yourself a bit, don't you think?

 

[coredeac]

I actually agree with Wrangor. CMM is clearly not a Manning style player and DT was a great college player but isn't a stretch 4 or a big center.

I would like to see what happens in the next few years with HIS players (and a full scholarship squad). We are also going through coaching growing pains...if he does well, I hope we are not taking our knocks to get him ready for Kansas (or the like).

I remain cautiously optimistic, but that is my nature.

How are "his players" going to resolve piss-poor in-game coaching decisions, mind-boggling substitution patterns and defenses that are almost always out of position?

To paraphrase Lee Trevino, "you can hit 1,000 balls a day on the range but if you don't know how to hit a golf ball, you won't get any better".


Maybe you are correct. But I don't see how different players are going to magically transform a coach with serious coaching deficits.

 

[Strickland33]

As to the 1st bold, what system do you think he is trying to run (legit question, not being snarky)?
As to the 2nd bold, I'm not even sure that is the case. People (cough, Strickland, cough) were sure that the CMM/Thomas class would be a boon to any coach who replaced [Redacted], and we see how that turned out. Our guys don't value the basketball, show very little awareness of team defensive principles, and we don't have any transcendent talents in the program or on the way in. Heck, if Moore has a great year next year, he is gone to the pros (as he should).

I just don't see Coach Manning as doing anything other than treading water where fuckface was.

I was sure about that? I was massively wrong in my player projections, but I was not saying that those players would "be a boon to any coach who replaced [Redacted]." At the time, I thought that [Redacted] was still capable of turning things around. That's the last time I will listen to AD propaganda and it's why I'm probably going to be a really cynical fan for life now.

And I'm confused about "how that turned out." Most of the Sensational 7 are playing good basketball (or at least rotation-worthy basketball) for teams that are better than we are or ranked in similar positions. They got better when they left. That leads me to believe that there is something really wrong with whatever [Redacted] was and Manning is doing as coach.

 

[DeaconSig]

I was sure about that? I was massively wrong in my player projections, but I was not saying that those players would "be a boon to any coach who replaced [Redacted]." At the time, I thought that [Redacted] was still capable of turning things around. That's the last time I will listen to AD propaganda and it's why I'm probably going to be a really cynical fan for life now.

And I'm confused about "how that turned out." Most of the Sensational 7 are playing good basketball (or at least rotation-worthy basketball) for teams that are better than we are or ranked in similar positions. They got better when they left. That leads me to believe that there is something really wrong with whatever [Redacted] was and Manning is doing as coach.

None of the Sensational 7 ended up being part of teams that could be competitive in the ACC. Cavanaugh has been fine on a team that is not a tourney team outside of the automatic bid. Rountree has been a starter on a team ranked 2 spots higher, but not a big-time contributor. Moto was a player for a team worse than Wake. Washington and Jones are not ACC players. Miller-McIntyre and Thomas just finished as two of the loosing-est players in ACC history.

The point is that even a team with Cavanaugh, Rountree, and Moto would have still sucked this year.

As far as the dig at you, it was a joke. Relax.

 

[Strickland33]

None of the Sensational 7 ended up being part of teams that could be competitive in the ACC. Cavanaugh has been fine on a team that is not a tourney team outside of the automatic bid. Rountree has been a starter on a team ranked 2 spots higher, but not a big-time contributor. Moto was a player for a team worse than Wake. Washington and Jones are not ACC players. Miller-McIntyre and Thomas just finished as two of the loosing-est players in ACC history.

The point is that even a team with Cavanaugh, Rountree, and Moto would have still sucked this year.

As far as the dig at you, it was a joke. Relax.

Thanks for clarifying. I agree with you.

 

[Ayo]

I've been critical of the Sensational 7 class in the past, but in retrospect, there were some decent pieces in the class, but it was just too big. CMM, Devin, Moto, and Cav - if that was the class, combined with some quality coaching, I think it would've been a historically average class by Wake standards, or maybe just a notch below it. Certainly not a program-changing class that would've put you over the hump but decent (once again, with some quality coaching).