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HB2 Strikes Again

bobknightfan said:
If you have two men who have the same body and are dressed the same....but one of them is a true transgender and the other is a voyeur posing as a transgender....how can you tell the difference?
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If you have two men who have the same body and are dressed the same...but one of them is a pedophile who rapes boys and the other is just a dude who needs to take a shit...how can you tell the difference?
 
For HB 2 opponents, if not bio gender, what do you propose is the test? Subjective self-report (a/k/a no test?)
 
jhmd2000 said:
For HB 2 opponents, if not bio gender, what do you propose is the test? Subjective self-report (a/k/a no test?)
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Categorizing self-reported beliefs isn't hard. We do it all the time in defining what a genuine religious belief is. That framework would be a good place to start
 
bobknightfan said:
You can't...but the situations are not comparable. You cannot keep men from going into the men's bathroom...but you can prevent pedophiles posing as transgenders to go into the girls' bathrooms. You are changing a law to make it possible.
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A law isn't going to stop a pedophile from being a pedophile.
 
bobknightfan said:
If you have two men who have the same body and are dressed the same....but one of them is a true transgender and the other is a voyeur (or predator) posing as a transgender....how can you tell the difference?

The answer is that you can't tell the difference. And that is the problem with allowing transgender males to use the girls' bathroom. If a person who is physically a male is allowed to use the girls' bathroom....and you cannot differentiate between a true transgender and a voyeur pretending to be a transgender by looking at them (and there is not going to be any monitoring going on after this change is allowed anyway)....there is no way to prevent voyeurs and/or predators from going into the girls' bathrooms.

The danger isn't from the true transgenders but from others who are taking advantage of a situation where any male can now go into the girls' bathroom pretending to be a transgender. And if people cannot see the potential problems with this situation they are blind. They far outweigh the small inconvenience of letting the true transgenders continue to use either a single occupancy bathroom or an enclosed stall in the men's bathroom.
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So, we ban straight people from public bathrooms? Only true transgenders can use the bathrooms. That really solves all of this.
 
tau06 said:
A law isn't going to stop a pedophile from being a pedophile.
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Strawman argument. Doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you are changing a law that will make it easier for pedophiles to prey upon children.....and serves no other really important purpose when relative plusses & minuses of such a law are compared. You can't stop a pedophile from being a pedophile....but you can stop a law that will let him walk freely into a girls' bathroom. Again, 0.3% of the population is transgender. There are plenty of single occupant bathrooms and enclosed stalls in men's bathrooms. You are creating a law that results in far more potential problems than any existing problems that it solves.
 
Tobacco Road said:
So, we ban straight people from public bathrooms? Only true transgenders can use the bathrooms. That really solves all of this.
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No, what solves the problem is continuing to have physical males use the men's bathrooms and physical females continuing to use the women's bathrooms.....just like we have done for the last 200 years. You are changing the entire situation that has worked for 200 years so that 0.3% of the people won't have the "problem" of using a single occupant bathroom or an enclosed stall in the men's bathroom.....both of which are universally available and pose virtually no inconvenience to them.
 
bobknightfan said:
No, what solves the problem is continuing to have physical males use the men's bathrooms and physical females continuing to use the women's bathrooms.....just like we have done for the last 200 years. You are changing the entire situation that has worked for 200 years so that 0.3% of the people won't have the "problem" of using a single occupant bathroom or an enclosed stall in the men's bathroom.....both of which are universally available and pose virtually no inconvenience to them.
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I don't know why you keep saying that. Trans people have been around for a long time. How many times in your life have you seen someone who looks like a woman but has a penis come into a men's room? You post as if you've seen that regularly in your lifetime.

Personally, I've never seen it. I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I just assume someone who has a penis but lives their life as a woman generally goes to the women's bathroom. Until the NC GOP completely changed the game and made that illegal.
 
bobknightfan said:
Strawman argument. Doesn't have anything to do with the fact that you are changing a law that will make it easier for pedophiles to prey upon children.....and serves no other really important purpose when relative plusses & minuses of such a law are compared. You can't stop a pedophile from being a pedophile....but you can stop a law that will let him walk freely into a girls' bathroom. Again, 0.3% of the population is transgender. There are plenty of single occupant bathrooms and enclosed stalls in men's bathrooms. You are creating a law that results in far more potential problems than any existing problems that it solves.
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In your mind, it makes it easier for men to prey on girls. You seem to have some rationale that that is somehow worse than women preying on girls or men preying on boys. Jerry Sandusky shared a locker room with boys when he raped them at PSU. People who caught him in the shower with boys hid behind that as somehow normative behavior when he was raping kids.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
In your mind, it makes it easier for men to prey on girls. You seem to have some rationale that that is somehow worse than women preying on girls or men preying on boys. Jerry Sandusky shared a locker room with boys when he raped them at PSU. People who caught him in the shower with boys hid behind that as somehow normative behavior when he was raping kids.
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It's not "just in my mind" that it makes it easier for men to prey on girls. You are proposing a law that makes it legal for a man to just walk right into any girls' restroom by posing as a transgender. That makes it easier. That's a fact, not just something in my mind.

And I'm not saying that one crime is worse than another crime. I'm just saying that you are unnecessarily changing a law for no worthwhile reason to make it easier for a crime to be committed. Any such crime is despicable....but why change a law to make it easier to commit a crime when there is no need to change the law in the first place?
 
bobknightfan said:
It's not "just in my mind" that it makes it easier for men to prey on girls. You are proposing a law that makes it legal for a man to just walk right into any girls' restroom by posing as a transgender. That makes it easier. That's a fact, not just something in my mind.

And I'm not saying that one crime is worse than another crime. I'm just saying that you are unnecessarily changing a law for no worthwhile reason to make it easier for a crime to be committed. Any such crime is despicable....but why change a law to make it easier to commit a crime when there is no need to change the law in the first place?
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Actually HB2 makes it easier for a man to walk right into a girls' restroom posing as a biological female. He doesn't even have to wear a skirt.
 
bobknightfan said:
It's not "just in my mind" that it makes it easier for men to prey on girls. You are proposing a law that makes it legal for a man to just walk right into any girls' restroom by posing as a transgender. That makes it easier. That's a fact, not just something in my mind.

And I'm not saying that one crime is worse than another crime. I'm just saying that you are unnecessarily changing a law for no worthwhile reason to make it easier for a crime to be committed. Any such crime is despicable....but why change a law to make it easier to commit a crime when there is no need to change the law in the first place?
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Quit thinking about what makes it easier to prey on little girls, you pervert.
 
bobknightfan said:
If you have two men who have the same body and are dressed the same....but one of them is a true transgender and the other is a voyeur (or predator) posing as a transgender....how can you tell the difference?

The answer is that you can't tell the difference. And that is the problem with allowing transgender males to use the girls' bathroom. If a person who is physically a male is allowed to use the girls' bathroom....and you cannot differentiate between a true transgender and a voyeur pretending to be a transgender by looking at them (and there is not going to be any monitoring going on after this change is allowed anyway)....there is no way to prevent voyeurs and/or predators from going into the girls' bathrooms.

The danger isn't from the true transgenders but from others who are taking advantage of a situation where any male can now go into the girls' bathroom pretending to be a transgender. And if people cannot see the potential problems with this situation they are blind. They far outweigh the small inconvenience of letting the true transgenders continue to use either a single occupancy bathroom or an enclosed stall in the men's bathroom.
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1. A trans female would look like a woman. A pervert posing as a woman would look like a man in drag.

2. "Transgender males" only use the women's restroom in North Carolina. In every other state a trans male uses the men's restroom because he looks and dresses and presents like a man.

3. Voters like you (and supporters of HB2) are literally the only people that support "transgender males in the girl's restroom".

4. If someone was, in your words, a "true transgender", I guarantee you'd have no problem with them joining you or your granddaughter in the restroom. The problem is that you don't know any trans people so you are afraid of them.
 
Tobacco Road said:
why do we need to test?
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Not saying we need a legal test. I believe the social norms resolvə this non-problem ab initio. İ am only admiring the omniscience of the SJWS who chastise others for not being able to distinguish a transgendered person from a true transgendered person from an opportunistic predator. If this is so clear beyond the ability of my pedestrian brain to understand, what IS the test for keeping a 14 year old cisgendered male out of the women's shower at the Y? If therẻ are no rules, just say that. No reason to call bkf a predator. Fragility on display.
 
wakephan09 said:
1. A trans female would look like a woman. A pervert posing as a woman would look like a man in drag.

2. "Transgender males" only use the women's restroom in North Carolina. In every other state a trans male uses the men's restroom because he looks and dresses and presents like a man.

3. Voters like you (and supporters of HB2) are literally the only people that support "transgender males in the girl's restroom".

I've said all along....though it has continually fallen on deaf ears....that
4. If someone was, in your words, a "true transgender", I guarantee you'd have no problem with them joining you or your granddaughter in the restroom. The problem is that you don't know any trans people so you are afraid of them.
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it's not the transgenders that is the problem. It's that the law will make it possible to allow people posing as transgenders, once it is legal for anyone to use the girls' restrooms. You say the two would "look differently"...but that is completely subjective (and also unenforceable), then you go on to say that people who have not seen many transgenders are "afraid of them". Well, that pretty much makes my point. If most of the people are not familiar with transgenders, they aren't going to know that they "look differently" so they wouldn't be able to tell a transgender from a person posing as one...and with this law, they couldn't do anything about it, anyway.

And the most important point is that there is no need to change the law to allow 0.3% of the population to use the girls' bathroom in the first place anyway, with the current alternative options that are readily available.
 
qcdeac said:
Really df07?
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That argument pisses me off because it's not true. HB2 does not make kids safe from predators. In the same way Amendment 1 was bad for families. There is not some magical sanctity of a women's restroom, and men are not uncontrollable predacious beings. It's a tired scare tactic that has been used by nearly every discriminatory era in modern American history. It comes down to trans men and women being an "other" that folks don't understand and fear combined with Victorian perceptions of women. Both are harmful.
 
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