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WSJ on Manning Hire and [Redacted]

Buttermaker said:
Clearly he's this generation's John Wooden. Blank check time Ronnie!
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He can't be. There were entire months when you had to put a mirror under Wooden's nose to prove he was breathing as he was that calm and stoic on the sideline.
 
DeacinBama said:
After hearing some of the rumors about Wellman swinging & missing in 2014 and the Larry Brown quote about Wake not being a good job, I wonder if we might need someone with Wake ties in order to get the best hire. That is, going outside of the family, so to speak, might mean a significant drop in quality because we're just not viewed as an attractive job any more.
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We aren't attractive because our AD hired an assistant then an old friend. Continuing these restricted pool searches is just going to make the problem worse.
 
Buttermaker said:
Clearly he's this generation's John Wooden. Blank check time Ronnie!
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Shouldn't that be what we're looking for? Seriously, is that not the goal?? A Coach that can lead us to sustained greatness over several decades like K, Knight, and Dean did for their schools?

That's my goal. And Buzz or Manning could never have done that. Buzz was too old. Manning would take the Kansas job with any success here. We need a young Coach with passion unafraid to stand up to anyone. We need one who will be intensely loyal to Wake Forest. We have that right in front of us in Miller. Sure, it's unlikely he has the decades long runs of K or Wooden. But at least it's possible. Shouldn't we try with the one where it is possible?
 
donaldross said:
You all are watching the paint dry on semantics while we are missing this chance at Miller. If I was our AD, I'd be in discussions right now for Miller to take over after this year.

Wellman has this inner belief that it hurts you to fire after one or two years. That was true in 1995. Not now. When it's obvious it isn't going to work and you have a better option, you go with it. See Virginia Tech. You don't see them suffering or a backlash because they upgraded after a year. There are an entirely different set of rules in the Trump era and Wellman will not adopt them to our detriment.
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I know you've been all about the #hottakes about your friends recently, but Wes Miller has been at UNCG for six years and is 74-97. Yes, they are having a decent year this year, but he's never even come close to making an NCAA tournament in a really weak conference. Why in God's name would you think he's qualified for an ACC job?
 
Why would a guy who graduated from UNC be "intensely loyal" to WF? WTF? Miller may well be the next coming of John Wooden but you are losing credibility with your refusal to acknowledge that he might be just another average (at best) coach.
 
So no one is mislead, Miller has had 4 full seasons at UNCG. And I advocated hiring him before that. Nothing here is new.
 
I find Wes as equally qualified as Buzz or DM and now maybe even more.

There are some on this board who always bring out the "first 3 year's of K" comparison as to records and point to that as to why all is ok. Please can we all admit there's one glaring flaw to this comparison and thats the difference in age at the same point of their careers. If either DM or Buzz was the same age as K in year three than this is a valid comparison because K had another 30 years to coach. Neither DM or Buzz had 30 more years.

I want a coach with energy and a desire to win. If its Wes thats fine. UNCG could have fired him 2 year's ago but saw something and decided to stay with him. I do know this kid is a coach for life and will have a major job someday and do well.

I think DM is a very likable guy unlike Buzz. I think DM wants to win but if he doesnt its not going to change his life much. I don't need a Tom Crean on the sideline but I do need some energy and someone who inspires me as a fan...DM doesnt do that for me.

Lastly I think as a fan base we have what we deserve. A nice name coach who was big time college and NBA and an assistant who next to Arnold Palmer is our forever our sports legend. We've lost sight as to why we play the game. For many of us we're getting better...making improvement so we can all rejoice in that. Watching a close loss on TV with the always added content of Chill's crossover and DM cutting down the nets with a few announcer kudos reminds us that in perception we once belonged and we cut off the TV happy that we're moving in the right direction.

In the ACC the only measurement is the number of wins and going to postseason. Its been 7 year's folks and short of the most serious of program criminal or academic issues we should all expect that at a minimum we get some type of postseason bid after year 3. Is it really beyond our expectation to not aspire to be one of the top 130 teams year in and year out?
 
inspectah said:
Why would a guy who graduated from UNC be "intensely loyal" to WF? WTF? Miller may well be the next coming of John Wooden but you are losing credibility with your refusal to acknowledge that he might be just another average (at best) coach.
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You do know the back story right? Miller grew up a Wake fan. His father's name is on our practice facility. He only went to UNC after we passed. It was no coincidence that he wore #22. He has a brother who is at Wake now. Miller is a Wake man.
 
donaldross said:
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Shouldn't that be what we're looking for? Seriously, is that not the goal?? A Coach that can lead us to sustained greatness over several decades like K, Knight, and Dean did for their schools?

That's my goal. And Buzz or Manning could never have done that. Buzz was too old. Manning would take the Kansas job with any success here. We need a young Coach with passion unafraid to stand up to anyone. We need one who will be intensely loyal to Wake Forest. We have that right in front of us in Miller. Sure, it's unlikely he has the decades long runs of K or Wooden. But at least it's possible. Shouldn't we try with the one where it is possible?
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Self isn't going to go to the pros and he's only four years older than Danny. The Kansas job will never be Danny's. If Danny turns our program around over the next two years, he'll be a Wake lifer.
 
PhDeac said:
We aren't attractive because our AD hired an assistant then an old friend. Continuing these restricted pool searches is just going to make the problem worse.
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I agree. We should always hire the best person we can. I'm just wondering out loud if that person might already have ties to Wake because our job is no longer sufficiently attractive for someone without those ties.
 
We don't know for sure whether Wes Miller would make a great coach at Wake or not. There are indications that he would have success. The vast majority of college coaches come from players with a passion for the game but a little short on talent. These guys typically get by on hard work and being a student of the game. Miller had no decent scholarship offers out of high school yet was a starter at UNC by his junior season. He is young, passionate, and loves Wake. His teams have shown improvement at UNCG.

I would not want think this is a no brainer, but I would want Miller in the conversation. In my mind, you either go after an older name coach who has proven himself or you go after a young guy with unlimited potential. Wellman has gone after the older coach without the resume 3 times in a row.
 
DeacinBama said:
I agree. We should always hire the best person we can. I'm just wondering out loud if that person might already have ties to Wake because our job is no longer sufficiently attractive for someone without those ties.
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Who did you have in mind? I can't think of any Wake grads who have much head coaching experience.
 
I'm confident this ACC job will become desirable again after Ronnie is gone.
 
Also if Manning has enough success at Wake to get the Kansas job (agree with the above he'll never get it) then Ronnie's hiring Chill. He just would.
 
donaldross said:
.

Shouldn't that be what we're looking for? Seriously, is that not the goal?? A Coach that can lead us to sustained greatness over several decades like K, Knight, and Dean did for their schools?

That's my goal. And Buzz or Manning could never have done that. Buzz was too old. Manning would take the Kansas job with any success here. We need a young Coach with passion unafraid to stand up to anyone. We need one who will be intensely loyal to Wake Forest. We have that right in front of us in Miller. Sure, it's unlikely he has the decades long runs of K or Wooden. But at least it's possible. Shouldn't we try with the one where it is possible?
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Absolutely we should be looking for a coach with those attributes. Miller's body of work to date doesn't establish he is that guy.
 
PhDeac said:
Who did you have in mind? I can't think of any Wake grads who have much head coaching experience.
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I haven't researched it enough to have anyone in mind, but I do think that DR is onto something, in general terms, by wanting to hire someone young and energetic with ties to Wake - alumnus or otherwise. We're already at the point that we've had to take a flyer on an unproven coach, so if/when we have to do it again, we might as well try to shoot the moon, i.e. get a coach to build Wake basketball into a top program and then stick around.

That isn't to say that I've given up on Manning, but I do think that if he ever gets Wake to where we want then he'll bolt if offered, and understandably so. And with every loss, Manning becomes that much less likely to be the guy to get us where I'd like to be, but he's got another year to convince me.

Of course, all of this is an academic exercise until Wellman is gone. He needs to hire another basketball coach like I need another hole in the head, so even if Manning falls flat (i.e. no NCAAT) in year 4, then I'd rather see him get a 5th year than Wellman lead another search.
 
Agree with hiring a younger, energetic coach, who will rally a totally miserable basketball fan base. With that said, pretty sure I would never be behind hiring a coach to run Wake's flagship program who played at UNC.
 
HCF3 said:
Agree with hiring a younger, energetic coach, who will rally a totally miserable basketball fan base. With that said, pretty sure I would never be behind hiring a coach to run Wake's flagship program who played at UNC.
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TITCR
 
Winning will rally the fanbase. That's it. If we had hired Larranaga, we would be winning with an old coach and the fanbase would be excited.
 
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