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Official '16-17 NBA Thread: not with a bang but a whimper

TownieDeac said:
It's a fair criticism. I think there's a big difference between HS/one year of college and pro ball, and the first time he gets benched in the pros for dogging it, his attitude will have to change. He had awful coaching at LSU. Can't speak to the coaching at Montverde. Either way too small a sample size to judge, so #tools are a better thing to go on at this point.
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A major tool is intensity. If you don't have a motor, the best you can be is above average. Hopefully, he'll find it.

It's bizarre to me that you can extrapolate how good his tools will make him on the same sample size you say is too small to determine if he is lazy. Either the sample size is big enough for both or for neither. You can't legitimately have it both ways.
 
RJKarl said:
A major tool is intensity. If you don't have a motor, the best you can be is above average. Hopefully, he'll find it.

It's bizarre to me that you can extrapolate how good his tools will make him on the same sample size you say is too small to determine if he is lazy. Either the sample size is big enough for both or for neither. You can't legitimately have it both ways.
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I am not saying you can't use the eye test to evaluate someone because of small sample size; I'm saying the opposite. I'm saying short of a statistically significant number of minutes played, you can't use a stats based argument to evaluate someone, so you have to use the eye test. Hence, you referring to laziness, and me referring to tools. Both are fine eye test indicators.

I did make a couple qualifying comments about your laziness diagnosis, but you're welcome to that opinion nonetheless.

The defensive tools scouts talk about with him have nothing to do with effort though: lateral quickness, footwork, length, vision.
 
RJKarl said:
I'm not saying Noel isn't an elite (or potentially) defender, but his steal total is not a main indicator.
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That is wrong, but the argument isn't going anywhere so believe what you want.
 
Over the past two years, even when he wasn't able to put weight on his foot, the stories were about how hard Embiid was working. Sadly, we haven't had those stories about Simmons. This adds to the worries.

You have no idea if his attitude will change if he gets benched. Has Boogie's attitude ever changed? Rondo's? There are tons of players whose attitudes never change.

You can teach many people to shoot. You can coach their lateral quickness or boxing out. Changing the motor of a kid who has been lazy is much more difficult.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
That is wrong, but the argument isn't going anywhere so believe what you want.
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He ability to move laterally, to block shots (which can't be taught) and to help on D are all much more important indicators than steals.
 
the #narrative was actually both, that he was an immature slob and that his workouts were insane
 
There were two phases to the Joel Embiid rehab. In the early part, he was pretty lackadaisical about his workouts. The need for the second surgery apparently caught his attention and in the rehab period following it he was much more dedicated to his work. The light bulb must have come on and he figured out that his rookie deal was going to be his only deal if he didn't show some dedication to the hard work necessary for his rehab. Seems like he figured it out. Maybe not so surprising given how young he was when he got to Philly.

Maybe seeing how Nerlens Noel (thanks, Ish) worked, got better and played decently after his own injury issues showed Embiid what needed to happen for him to get back to playing.
 
Deaconblue said:
Maybe seeing how Nerlens Noel (thanks, Ish) worked, got better and played decently after his own injury issues showed Embiid what needed to happen for him to get back to playing.
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Certainly possible, they're super close.
 
TownieDeac said:
It's a fair criticism. I think there's a big difference between HS/one year of college and pro ball, and the first time he gets benched in the pros for dogging it, his attitude will have to change. He had awful coaching at LSU. Can't speak to the coaching at Montverde. Either way too small a sample size to judge, so #tools are a better thing to go on at this point.
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Or what, he still gets paid millions to play 5 minutes less per game? Plenty of NBA players have had the tools but never put it together. Lamar Odom had more talent than anyone in the NBA for years and he did just enough to be a glorified role player on some good teams. Which certainly isn't bad, but is a far cry from the superstar people are projecting/hoping Simmons to be. The guy played one half-assed year of college hoops, expecting him to be anything more than decent in the NBA at this point is more wishful thinking and lack of viable alternatives than anything.
 
i hope you're exactly as wrong about simmons as you were about embiid
 
This was from before the season started, fwiw.

TownieDeac said:
Attracting free agents to Philly is still going to take a couple or a few years. I suspect getting to play with a generational talent like Embiid will help. The New Orleans model is a decent comparison.
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2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I can't tell if this is a sarcastic post or not. Play what with Embiid - checkers in the recovery room? He makes Greg Oden look like Cal Ripken. Assuming he isn't already out for the year this season, what's the over/under on the number of actual games he plays before he is?
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palma already admitted he was trolling about okafor in case y'all missed it

sixers gonna play him a lot more in coming weeks before february to try and get more than just a late first or early second
 
You just gotta pair HOFoak with a rangy big who can knock down the three and defend the rim, do work out of the high post. Shouldn't be hard.
 
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