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Official 2018 NBA Offseason Thread: the preseason cometh

Fatty seems to think Phoenix or Denver have a shot at this.

Bledsoe, always injured plus Jared Dudley LOL plus a draft pick or two

For

Kyrie and Shumpert.

Interesting.
 
Wrangor said:
This.

Tier 1: Steph

Tier 2: CP3, Harden, Westbrook

Tier 3: Wall, Lillard, Irving, Conley

Tier 4: Lowry, Isaiah, Kemba, Dragic

Tier 5: Bledsoe, Jrue, Teague, Hill, Rubio

Tier 6: Schroeder, Russell, Rose, Parker

Or something like that.
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Damn good list.

I've got top like this:

1. Steph and Westbrook

2. CP3, Harden, Wall

3. Everybody else
 
With Derrick Rose on the Cavs, there is now no doubt that they will add Melo just so that Lebron can prove he can win better with his posse than Phil Jackson could.
 
vadimivich said:
I don't get the disrepect for Steph on here sometimes. There's not a group of top 4 - there's a group of top 1.

Steph
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.
.
.
CP3 / Harden / Westbrook
.
.
.
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Irving/Wall/Conley/etc
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I get this sentiment based on his performance in the second half of the season and the playoffs. I do think it's pretty tough to evaluate individual players on this Warriors team. Compared to other PGs Steph has less defensive pressure focused on him because you simply can't leave the rest of his teammates alone. That's really hard to measure.

Over the past three years there has been a gap of varying degrees between Steph and those three. It's never been very big and at times non-existent. That's not disrespectful to Steph, simply an acknowledgement that the other three are really fucking good.
 
RChildress107 said:
I get this sentiment based on his performance in the second half of the season and the playoffs. I do think it's pretty tough to evaluate individual players on this Warriors team. Compared to other PGs Steph has less defensive pressure focused on him because you simply can't leave the rest of his teammates alone. That's really hard to measure.

Over the past three years there has been a gap of varying degrees between Steph and those three. It's never been very big and at times non-existent. That's not disrespectful to Steph, simply an acknowledgement that the other three are really fucking good.
Click to expand...

It is disrespectful to Steph - he's won 2 MVP's, led his team to a title as the best player and then was the best player on a 73(!) win team.

He's a historically great player who has completely warped the way the sport is played. His impact both in the immediacy and in the long term history of the sport far outstrips those other guys. They are all HoF players (Harden, CP3, Westbrook) but they aren't "inner circle HoF" types. Steph is.
 
Wrangor said:
This.

Tier 1: Steph

Tier 2: CP3, Harden, Westbrook

Tier 3: Wall, Lillard, Irving, Conley

Tier 4: Lowry, Isaiah, Kemba, Dragic

Tier 5: Bledsoe, Jrue, Teague, Hill, Rubio

Tier 6: Schroeder, Russell, Rose, Parker

Or something like that.
Click to expand...

That's pretty good. I wouldn't give Steph his own tier, would put Lowry in tier 3 and drop Schroder and Parker altogether, but otherwise not a lot to quibble with
 
vadimivich said:
It is disrespectful to Steph - he's won 2 MVP's, led his team to a title as the best player and then was the best player on a 73(!) win team.

He's a historically great player who has completely warped the way the sport is played. His impact both in the immediacy and in the long term history of the sport far outstrips those other guys. They are all HoF players (Harden, CP3, Westbrook) but they aren't "inner circle HoF" types. Steph is.
Click to expand...

He gets wayyyyyyyy too much credit for "changing the way the sport is played." Daryl Morey and Steve Kerr deserve most of the credit. The Rockets started the 3 point revolution and Kerr realized that's the way the league was going and that he had the perfect player to take advantage of the way the league was already going.

I don't think Steph actually got that much better from a skill standpoint from 13-14 to 14-15, his skills were simply put to much better use. Steph deserves a ton of credit for having the BBall IQ and unparalleled shooting skills to execute Kerr's vision but let's stop acting like it was his idea.
 
RChildress107 said:
He gets wayyyyyyyy too much credit for "changing the way the sport is played." Daryl Morey and Steve Kerr deserve most of the credit. The Rockets started the 3 point revolution and Kerr realized that's the way the league was going and that he had the perfect player to take advantage of the way the league was already going.

I don't think Steph actually got that much better from a skill standpoint from 13-14 to 14-15, his skills were simply put to much better use. Steph deserves a ton of credit for having the BBall IQ and unparalleled shooting skills to execute Kerr's vision but let's stop acting like it was his idea.
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By Daryl Morey and Steve Kerr, you mean Greg Popovich, right?
 
Steph didn't lead his team to a championship either year, without Iggy and KD he's 0-3 in the finals.

I get that Championships effect how a player is viewed, but too much so in my opinion. You have to consider the team a player has around them. Not all championships and not all MVP's are weighted equal.

Chris's prime (the 2 and 1/2 years before he blew out his knee) stacks up very favorably to Steph's, people just don't realize it because he played in a small market on a shitty team and didn't get the hardware because of a lifetime achievement award for Kobe ('08) and the second best player ever in his absolute prime ('09).
 
RChildress107 said:
Not sure if Morey or Pop made that transition first but Morey put it into overdrive.
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GTFO out of here with that Daryl Morey shit. No team has sniffed a championship without defense playing a major part, if not leading the way. Just because the Dubs shoot threes doesn't mean they are anything like Morey's (or D'Antoni's) teams. That's like crediting Norv Turner with the Patriots success because they both pass a lot.
 
vadimivich said:
It is disrespectful to Steph - he's won 2 MVP's, led his team to a title as the best player and then was the best player on a 73(!) win team.

He's a historically great player who has completely warped the way the sport is played. His impact both in the immediacy and in the long term history of the sport far outstrips those other guys. They are all HoF players (Harden, CP3, Westbrook) but they aren't "inner circle HoF" types. Steph is.
Click to expand...

but his shoes suck
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
GTFO out of here with that Daryl Morey shit. No team has sniffed a championship without defense playing a major part, if not leading the way. Just because the Dubs shoot threes doesn't mean they are anything like Morey's (or D'Antoni's) teams. That's like crediting Norv Turner with the Patriots success because they both pass a lot.
Click to expand...

I assumed we were arguing about how much credit Steph deserves for "changing the way the game is played" on the offensive end of the floor. I agree that defense is often overlooked in these conversations though.
 
vadimivich said:
It is disrespectful to Steph - he's won 2 MVP's, led his team to a title as the best player and then was the best player on a 73(!) win team.

He's a historically great player who has completely warped the way the sport is played. His impact both in the immediacy and in the long term history of the sport far outstrips those other guys. They are all HoF players (Harden, CP3, Westbrook) but they aren't "inner circle HoF" types. Steph is.
Click to expand...

Also lets pump the breaks on Steph's "inner circle HOF" cred. He's had 3 elite seasons, every inner circle HOF guy (not sure what that means but let's go with top 10) had 8 or 9 plus.

Here are Steph's numbers for the past 3 seasons:

238 games: 26.4 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 7.0 apg, 2.0 spg, 49/44/91 shooting, 28.1 PER, 46.1 WS, 23.9 VORP, 9.9 BPM

For comparison here are CP3's numbers in the 2 and 1/2 years before blowing out his kneee:

195 games: 21.7 ppg, 4.7 rpg, 11.3 apg, 2.7 spg, 50/38/86 shooting, 28.5 PER, 43.4 WS*, 21.5 VORP, 9.4 BPM

Steph gets a slight bump because of the MVPs and a bigger bump because of the championships but he needs 3-4 more seasons similar to the 6 Chris just rattled off before we can start talking inner circle HOF.

*WS, VORP, and BPM numbers for Chris are conservative estimates to account for taking out the 7 shitty games he played after coming back from injury later that year.
 
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I'm in semi-retirement. I was falling out of the A game and the other games are dangerous. It's not that they play dirty. It's that they don't know the nuances of how play hard without causing unneeded contact, etc.

I had been using Asics or whatever was on sale. :)

I got the Tim spidey shoes from one of the guys we played with who works for Nike. Man, those shoes were ugggggly and the most uncomfortable shoes I had ever worn. They are somewhere in a closet.
 
RJKarl said:
I'm in semi-retirement. I was falling out of the A game and the other games are dangerous. It's not that they play dirty. It's that they don't know the nuances of how play hard without causing unneeded contact, etc.

I had been using Asics or whatever was on sale. :)

I got the Tim spidey shoes from one of the guys we played with who works for Nike. Man, those shoes were ugggggly and the most uncomfortable shoes I had ever worn. They are somewhere in a closet.
Click to expand...

Dude... you can't ball out in Asics. Come on.
 
Brandon knight from suns tears acl and likely out for season. How does that affect a kyrie trade? They have interest or could be a 3rd team.
 
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