Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon - (and beyond) Discussion (spoilers allowed)

[OblongPickle]

Yeah how stupid do they think we are? Like people wouldn't realize she was forced to write it as a prisoner? Arya is jumping the shark for me

I'm hoping she knows what Littlefinger is up to and just playing along to find out his endgame. I hope they don't just make her the superficial brat sister that she's appearing to be.

 

[DEACisGO]

I'm hoping she knows what Littlefinger is up to and just playing along to find out his endgame. I hope they don't just make her the superficial brat sister that she's appearing to be.

Reminds me of the scene from hunger games when peeta is prisoner and all the people in district 13 get all pissed off when he gives a pro capital interview. Like, whoa a prisoner saying things here comes my illogical outrage!

 

[Fuck Your Couch]

yeah i know ayra knows that sansa was forced, but they're portraying the note like it would be a huge bombshell if it got out, when a) people should have already know about it b) really should not a big deal to non-ayra people anyway.

 

[RChildress107]

The show still has cool moments, but the plotting this season is just bad and this episode is the worst of it:

- How could anyone think that this plan to capture a wight and bring it to Cersei was a good idea in the first place?
-And then when it turns to shit Dany flies all the way from Dragonstone? Ridiculous
-Then Benjen just shows up at the end and sacrifices himself for basically no reason?
- And the giant crossbow bolt that hits the dragon a couple episodes ago does basically 0 damage, but one throw of the ice spear takes one down easily?
- Add on Arya acting like an idiot, Gendry the running champion, and Jon calling her "Dany" and this has to be a bottom 5 episode of the show.

1. The plan to capture a wight is a dumb idea, but it's precisely the dumb idea Jon Snow would go along with. He's the only one of the major actors at dragonstone who knows for a fact that the white walker threat is real, he has a single-minded focus on defeating that threat, and isn't meant to/fit for diplomacy/battle plans. This is his excuse to get back to where he thinks he needs to be and Dany/Tyrion are willing to let him go since they are still skeptical of the white Walker threat themselves (which Dany confirms at the end of this episode).

Is it a stupid plan? Yes. Is it in character? Also yes.

2. I'm not sure what about Dany flying in on her Dragons is ridiculous. Seemed totally in character for Dany and within the known capabilities of her Dragons. If anything it was too predictable, not ridiculous.

3. Covered above.

4. Are we really debating the relative damage rating of a mechanical crossbow and a magical ice tipped spear thrown by a 1000 year old ice zombie?

5. All three of those examples were in character: Arya distrusts pretty much everyone, her sister especially; Gendry is presumably the lightest and one of the youngest in the group, he's the obvious choice to send back and really doesn't have a choice given the situation but to run all out until collapsing at the wall; Danerys is call Dany pretty consistently in the books and when you are showing off your death scars you can call the Mother of Dragons whatever the fuck you want.

 

[deaconson]

The show still has cool moments, but the plotting this season is just bad and this episode is the worst of it:

- How could anyone think that this plan to capture a wight and bring it to Cersei was a good idea in the first place?
-And then when it turns to shit Dany flies all the way from Dragonstone? Ridiculous
-Then Benjen just shows up at the end and sacrifices himself to save jon "targaryan rightful ruler of westeros" snow's life.
- And the giant crossbow bolt that hits the dragon a couple episodes ago does basically 0 damage, but one throw of the ice spear takes one down easily?
- Add on Arya acting like an idiot, Gendry the running champion, and Jon calling her "Dany" and this has to be a bottom 5 episode of the show.

fixed item 3 for you.

 

[RChildress107]

nah i think the ayra stuff is way stupid. first of all robb stark read that note that sansa was forced to write in front of all his northern bannermen and immediately knew what it was. people in the north should know about that note... and it wasn't even a slightest of a deal then. sansa was literally a child being held hostage.

also, ayra trained with magical fucking assassins that showed her the ways of stealth and deceit and she can't tell this is a trap from this fucking donk littlefinger? only way it makes sense is if she's just pretending to be dumb about it to keep littlefinger off-guard for the time being.

The last sentence is a possibility, but:

1. Littlefinger, at least prior to this season, is anything but a donk. Other than maybe Varys he's the best schemer on the show, partly by appearing to be a donk. Not super shocking that arya underestimates him.

2. All, or the majority, of the bannerman that hear Robb read the letter are dead; Sansa isn't aware of the reaction to the letter; She is aware that Littlefinger can't be trusted and has probably been whispering to her bannermen; Arya also isn't aware of this reaction; Sansa is a stand in ruler at the moment; Sansa isn't a little girl anymore and as Arya points out was older at the time than Leanna Mormont; its winter and shit has changed a lot since Robb read that letter.

It's totally in character for Arya to believe the worst in her sister and think the letter is a big deal and for Sansa to be worried about the reaction of the Northern Lords to a letter that she is ashamed of ever writing.

 

[Fuck Your Couch]

i mean she heard littlefinger say "lady stark appreciates this" or something when the note was delivered to him. if sansa and ayra just talked for like 2 seconds about why the note has resurfaced it becomes clear wtf is going on. like if sansa just said "where did that come from?" or if ayra just said "i saw littlefinger working for you to hide this". super normal questions when a suppposedly damaging note resurfaces out of nowhere after years and all of the sudden you're fighting with your sister.

and everyone by this point know littlefinger is a shady piece of shit. a real faceless assassin would not have walked right into this bullshit.

 

[RChildress107]

Sansa was Robb's little sister, but Arya's older sister. Also Arya is looking at it now, having been through hell and back. Seems logical that Robb and Arya would both react they way they did/have. Also she is not saying she doesn't realize she was "forced" to do it; she is just saying that Sansa should have resisted/refused.

TITCR

 

[TBDeac]

the giant NON MAGICAL crossbow bolt hits a wing or something vs. magical ice spear thrown at mach 25 hitting the neck. DO you even fantasy bro?

Yeah, and there should be some level of consistency. If this Night King dude is capable of that, there should have been some set up for it. Or he should have just grabbed a few spears and taken out Jon Snow and team in the (apparently multiple day) stand-off that was occurring and been done with things right away.

 

[DEACisGO]

Yeah, and there should be some level of consistency. If this Night King dude is capable of that, there should have been some set up for it. Or he should have just grabbed a few spears and taken out Jon Snow and team in the (apparently multiple day) stand-off that was occurring and been done with things right away.

Contrived plot is contrived, but makes for great set pieces

 

[RChildress107]

i mean she heard littlefinger say "lady stark appreciates this" or something when the note was delivered to him. if sansa and ayra just talked for like 2 seconds about why the note has resurfaced it becomes clear wtf is going on. like if sansa just said "where did that come from?" or if ayra just said "i saw littlefinger working for you to hide this". super normal questions when a suppposedly damaging note resurfaces out of nowhere after years and all of the sudden you're fighting with your sister.

and everyone by this point know littlefinger is a shady piece of shit. a real faceless assassin would not have walked right into this bullshit.

She's not a real faceless assassin though. She's not "no one" she's still Arya Stark. And she's acting exactly how you would expect a little sister to act upon returning home (I suspect some of you don't have sisters) by reverting back to Arya from seasons 1&2 before her training from the faceless men.

That Arya was an annoying little sister who viewed Sansa as the stuck up princess that she was. Shouldn't be surprising that upon returning home for first time since season 1 Arya reverts back to her earlier self.

 

[RChildress107]

Yeah, and there should be some level of consistency. If this Night King dude is capable of that, there should have been some set up for it. Or he should have just grabbed a few spears and taken out Jon Snow and team in the (apparently multiple day) stand-off that was occurring and been done with things right away.

The set up was him being handed the giant ice javelin and you realizing "oh fuck he's about to take down a dragon." It's called a surprise.

It also looked like he only had a couple of those (no use wasting them on humans) and there are a number of theories that would explain why the Night King wouldn't kill Jon Snow.

It's pretty clear that the Night King has motivations other than mindlessly marching South and bringing Winter with him. I think we will get a lot more background on him next season.

 

[Fuck Your Couch]

i am surprised that this genius plan that is going down perfectly for littlefinger relied on sansa not saying "where did that come from" when confronted by ayra AND ayra not volunteering that info.

 

[bym051d]

there are a number of theories that would explain why the Night King wouldn't kill Jon Snow.

He can't.

In-des-truct-ible

 

[RChildress107]

i am surprised that this genius plan that is going down perfectly for littlefinger relied on sansa not saying "where did that come from" when confronted by ayra AND ayra not volunteering that info.

I'd have to go back and watch but I'm pretty sure Sansa asks Arya where she got the letter from. And even if Arya had told her, which would have been out of character, what does that solve?

Sansa says what? " I didn't ask Littlefinger to get that for me and destroy it, he's just trying to turn us against each other." And then Arya says "oh ok, I totally believe you and trust you now Sansa."

Do you have siblings? Sisters in particular?

 

[dartsndeacs]

Yeah, and there should be some level of consistency. If this Night King dude is capable of that, there should have been some set up for it. Or he should have just grabbed a few spears and taken out Jon Snow and team in the (apparently multiple day) stand-off that was occurring and been done with things right away.

If the Night King can up and see Bran anytime he does his three eyed raven shit, he probably knew there were dragons in the world and wanted one for himself all along.

 

[RChildress107]

He can't.

In-des-truct-ible

That too. Should have said wouldnt/couldn't.

 

[Fuck Your Couch]

lol yes i have sisters. that has nothing to do with anything. agree to disagree, this is just the most transparently contrived decision making to create drama that the show has ever done imo.

in fact it's so bad, i will almost guarantee littlefinger gets capped by ayra in the s7 finale and this was all some kind of ploy by ayra... and the writers for fake drama.

 

[RChildress107]

lol yes i have sisters. that has nothing to do with anything. agree to disagree, this is just the most transparently contrived decision making to create drama that the show has ever done imo.

in fact it's so bad, i will almost guarantee littlefinger gets capped by ayra in the s7 finale and this was all some kind of ploy by ayra... and the writers for fake drama.

Your sisters must have been nicer to each other as teenagers than mine. GoT is great in part because it's a fantasy series with very realistic human interactions. You could take out all of the fantasy and it would still be a fantastic medieval political drama. The Arya/Sansa relationship, both early on and now, has always struck me as one of the most realistic relationships on the show.

It's annoying and I guess can feel contrived to an audience that has the benefit of information (in the same way that Jon's death wish heroism is annoying and I guess can feel contrived despite being an essential part of his character).

 

[OblongPickle]

I hadn't noticed previously, but Bran totally dresses like the Night King. Plus they have similar facial construction with the angular jaw/nose and pointed ears.