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Game of Thrones - House of the Dragon - (and beyond) Discussion (spoilers allowed)

EatLeadCommie said:
Good question. Since they created the white walkers, I'm inclined to think they are immune to their reanimations.
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Summer would likely have gotten burned up when the leader of the children detonated her suicide grenade. I have a feeling we might see Hodor again, though.
 
HoopheadVII said:
I thought Present Bran heard Meera shouting "Hold The Door" while dreaming and then Dream (visiting Past) Bran warged into Past Wylis (young Hodor) - which leaked into Present Hodor holding the door. Past Wylis' eyes definitely rolled up in his head, and the warg from Dream Bran is what scrambled young Wylis' brains and turned him in to Hodor. Bran's consciousness was definitely in the dream - and Wylis' must have been turned into Hodor in the past, or he wouldn't have been Hodor all along through the story.

Basically, Bran heard something while dreaming, took control of Dream Hodor, and then made Present Hodor act.
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This is how I interpreted it as well, which helps explain why Hodor became Hodor
 
I wish bran would die. Worst story arc on the show. Also, why do Starks fuck literally everything up? They are terrible at life.
 
Toogs said:
I wish bran would die. Worst story arc on the show. Also, why do Starks fuck literally everything up? They are terrible at life.
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Because up until Sansa's turn, they don't understand the Game of Thrones.
 
My favorite comments from reddit:

Man I hate it when I go see a play and it depicts my fathers death.

Arya played herself in the play.

Literally this entire show is Bran's fault. Like from day one.

Yara didn't have enough superdelegates to win the Ironborn party nomination.

Shout out to Meera Reed for being the only person awake/mentally capable during an attack by THE ENTIRE FUCKING WHITE WALKER ARMY

So that's what Wyllis was talking about.
 
pghdeac said:
My favorite comments from reddit:

Man I hate it when I go see a play and it depicts my fathers death.

Arya played herself in the play.

Literally this entire show is Bran's fault. Like from day one.

Yara didn't have enough superdelegates to win the Ironborn party nomination.

Shout out to Meera Reed for being the only person awake/mentally capable during an attack by THE ENTIRE FUCKING WHITE WALKER ARMY

So that's what Wyllis was talking about.
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Good stuff. That last bit is gold.
 
HoopheadVII said:
I thought Present Bran heard Meera shouting "Hold The Door" while dreaming and then Dream (visiting Past) Bran warged into Past Wylis (young Hodor) - which leaked into Present Hodor holding the door. Past Wylis' eyes definitely rolled up in his head, and the warg from Dream Bran is what scrambled young Wylis' brains and turned him in to Hodor. Bran's consciousness was definitely in the dream - and Wylis' must have been turned into Hodor in the past, or he wouldn't have been Hodor all along through the story.

Basically, Bran heard something while dreaming, took control of Dream Hodor, and then made Present Hodor act.
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I went back and watched the scene and Bran definitely wargs in the present first.

Bran wargs into Hodor in the cave while his consciousness is still in the Winterfell vision. Hodor helps them escape, opens the door and then shuts it behind him and is trying to hold it shut when Meera takes Brans sled turns around and yells at Bran to "hold the door"

At that point we go back to Winterfell and Wylis is looking at Bran (who has his back to Wylis). Wylis is clearly the only one who sees Bran. Bran turns to face Wylis and after staring at each other Wylis's eyes roll back into his head and he falls to the ground yelling "hold the door" as we hear Meera's voice (from the present) yelling hold the door.


I took this to mean that Bran warging into Hodor in the present while his consciousness was in Winterfell created some sort of connection which allowed Wylis to see Bran and hear Meera. This obviously fucked with his mind and caused him to become Hodor.

Basically Bran exercising his warging and greensight powers at the same time allowed Hodor/Wylis to experience Bran's visions which seriously fucked with Wylis's brain.
 
Two other points:

1. Based on last night it seems unlikely that Bran is capable of changing the past. Any interaction Bran has with the past during his greensight visions has already happened and is part of a closed time loop

2. Just realized that in the same vision Wylis became Hodor, young Ned Stark was saying his goodbyes before leaving for the Vale to foster with John Arryn alongside Robert Baratheon. Not sure if this has any significance but found it interesting nonetheless.
 
I don't agree with number one I don't think. I chalked it up more as a fate type deal where Bran believes he has free will, but he's already changed the past. So in the Hodor example, Bran was always going to warg into Hodor in that moment. It simultaneously kills Hodor when he does it AND takes its toll on young Hodor leading to Hodor's death. The fact that Hodor was a part of the show in Hodor form and not Wylis form indicated that Bran did "change" the past.

I don't know if I'm explaining that well though. I also don't know if it's that I "disagree" with you - we may be saying similar things.
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I don't agree with number one I don't think. I chalked it up more as a fate type deal where Bran believes he has free will, but he's already changed the past. So in the Hodor example, Bran was always going to warg into Hodor in that moment. It simultaneously kills Hodor when he does it AND takes its toll on young Hodor leading to Hodor's death. The fact that Hodor was a part of the show in Hodor form and not Wylis form indicated that Bran did "change" the past.

I don't know if I'm explaining that well though. I also don't know if it's that I "disagree" with you - we may be saying similar things.
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Good ol' time travel theory.

It's not that Bran doesn't have free will, it's that the consequences of his actions are already baked in to his current timeline.
 
bym051d said:
Good ol' time travel theory.

It's not that Bran doesn't have free will, it's that the consequences of his actions are already baked in to his current timeline.
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It's a plot mechanic that I always dig. Anytime there is "seeing the future" in TV or movies and whatever was "seen" doesn't actually happen, I think it's bullshit
 
bym051d said:
Good ol' time travel theory.

It's not that Bran doesn't have free will, it's that the consequences of his actions are already baked in to his current timeline.
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That remains to be seen. Last episode it didn't look like Bran intentionally did anything to interact with the past using greensight. His warging into Wylis seemed to be an unintended consequence of warging into present Hodor while using greensight. It will be interesting to see if Bran's ability to affect the past is limited to similar situations or if it is something he can develop and control.

I doubt he will be able to alter the past as he (and we) knows it. Basically its Prisoner of Azkaban time travel rather than Butterfly Effect time travel.
 
So any predictions on whats to come?

Benjen's going to save Bran and take him to Jon, at which point Bran will tell him who his parents were. Theon will go back to Sansa and maybe pickup the Blackfish and they'll take Winterfell and Sansa, with Theons help will kill Ramsay. Rickon will stay as protector of Winterfell. Varys will kill Euron for making Eunuch jokes and take his ships to take the Dothraki back to Westeros. Brienne will probably come across Arya's Direwolf if she's heading to the Riverlands. Sansa will meet up with Littlefinger and get him killed by saying he killed Lysa Arryn and will win over the knights of the Vale. Samwell will take over and lead his house, and will be repsonsible for getting all the dragonglass at Stannis's home to defeat the white walkers, where he'll truly earn the nickname of Sam the Slayer.
 
DeacdeTejas said:
Also it must be asked if we are buying the Jon and Meera twin theory now?
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Pretty obvious since Howland Reed was at the Tower of Joy w/ Ned and they look alike. Meera would then be the 3rd targaryan to ride the dragon? I think only her, jon and Sam has killed a white walker, so those two now have more in common.
 
Benjen next lord comander?
Dani bangs out jon and gets prego w/ that targ incest thing.
Will Sam make it to old town to train for a few weeks prior to heading back? Think going to dragonstone is an interesting thought.
Theon and Yara are going to take their ships to the kaleese. She needs ships.
 
someone said its unlikely GRRM just copies a star wars plot and makes Meera and Jon Twins.
 
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