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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

myDeaconmyhand said:
I dont understand why we are blaming Wellman. 2 weeks ago we were all thrilled with Danny, why should Wellman have thought any differently? He's not a psychic.
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Wellman hired a very risky coach with almost no head coaching experience. It was a huge gamble at a time that Wake basketball could not afford a gamble. I hoped it would work out, but it was just hope. He has recruited well and coached poorly every year that he has been at Wake. The hope was that he would grow into the job. That's not what you want for an ACC coach. Rather than grow into the job, Manning has regressed into a poor man's BZ. (I need to shower for having just typed that).

I know that DRoss can be insufferable, but he is correct. If we are taking a gamble it should be on a young enthusiastic coach whose entire life trajectory will depend on his tenure at Wake.
 
OblongPickle said:
Then everyone will just say that our Top 10 recruiting class needs to mature and our hopefully great 2019 class needs a chance to show what they can do.

:noidea:
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This is true. Wake Forest has discovered the fountain of youth. We are forever young.
 
Biggus Deacus said:
Some fans never wanted Manning and believe that there were millions laying around that would have allowed Wellman to go after a better, more experienced coach.
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It's mostly a combo of this and just overall Wellman hate. The disconnect from reality is fairly humorous. Wellman was down on the football field with the soccer team over the weekend accepting an ACC Championship trophy while his new football coach was beating a ranked NC State team to improve the location of Wake 2nd bowl game in a row. Manning went from a dumpster fire to the NCAA Tourney in 3 years and put a lowly regarded 3 star in the NBA. The baseball team only got bounced from the World Series because they ran into Florida too early - and had that ball been fair instead of foul by 6 inches they would have eliminated them. The golf team is right on the edge of top 10 in the country.

People always go nuts over a bad year. CP3 leaves and we win 3 ACC games? Fire Skip Prosser. Some of the same posters who are always there with a "how could you fire Gaudio the year after he made the tournament" are banging the fire Manning drum. There was a thread arguing how long [Redacted] had set the program back - posters were arguing 10 years in some cases. Considering the incoming class and that our starting front court went pro early, this year will be excused regardless of fan complaints. And it probably should be.

Doesn't mean Manning is coaching this team well, doesn't mean he's the long term answer, doesn't excuse the game-in, game-out play or criticism of his decisions. The effort by many to discredit last year is pretty fascinating though. The random racist tags and posts aren't doing that crowd any favors.
 
knowell said:
Wellman hired a very risky coach with almost no head coaching experience. It was a huge gamble at a time that Wake basketball could not afford a gamble. I hoped it would work out, but it was just hope. He has recruited well and coached poorly every year that he has been at Wake. The hope was that he would grow into the job. That's not what you want for an ACC coach. Rather than grow into the job, Manning has regressed into a poor man's BZ. (I need to shower for having just typed that).

I know that DRoss can be insufferable, but he is correct. If we are taking a gamble it should be on a young enthusiastic coach whose entire life trajectory will depend on his tenure at Wake.
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He has recruited well 2 out of 4.5 years. The class led by Wilbekin and Dinos was ok, the class led by Childress and D Mitchell was weak, the class with JC and Crawford was good but should be the average at an ACC school, the class with Brown and Eggs was good and the class with Hoard and Mucius will probably be really good. His recruiting is fine but not exceptional and it certainly doesn’t out weigh in game coaching, game planning and overall vision for the team.
 
DCDeac said:
It's mostly a combo of this and just overall Wellman hate. The disconnect from reality is fairly humorous. Wellman was down on the football field with the soccer team over the weekend accepting an ACC Championship trophy while his new football coach was beating a ranked NC State team to improve the location of Wake 2nd bowl game in a row. Manning went from a dumpster fire to the NCAA Tourney in 3 years and put a lowly regarded 3 star in the NBA. The baseball team only got bounced from the World Series because they ran into Florida too early - and had that ball been fair instead of foul by 6 inches they would have eliminated them. The golf team is right on the edge of top 10 in the country.

People always go nuts over a bad year. CP3 leaves and we win 3 ACC games? Fire Skip Prosser. Some of the same posters who are always there with a "how could you fire Gaudio the year after he made the tournament" are banging the fire Manning drum. There was a thread arguing how long [Redacted] had set the program back - posters were arguing 10 years in some cases. Considering the incoming class and that our starting front court went pro early, this year will be excused regardless of fan complaints. And it probably should be.

Doesn't mean Manning is coaching this team well, doesn't mean he's the long term answer, doesn't excuse the game-in, game-out play or criticism of his decisions. The effort by many to discredit last year is pretty fascinating though. The random racist tags and posts aren't doing that crowd any favors.
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Good post. I'm sure all fanbases are full of reactionary crazies with extremely short memories. But LOWF is certainly in the running for most delusional.
 
birdman said:
He has recruited well 2 out of 4.5 years. The class led by Wilbekin and Dinos was ok, the class led by Childress and D Mitchell was weak, the class with JC and Crawford was good but should be the average at an ACC school, the class with Brown and Eggs was good and the class with Hoard and Mucius will probably be really good. His recruiting is fine but not exceptional and it certainly doesn’t out weigh in game coaching, game planning and overall vision for the team.
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I can't disagree with this. I gave some credit for having to recruit to the dumpster fire BZ left.
 
wakephan09 said:
Good post. I'm sure all fanbases are full of reactionary crazies with extremely short memories. But LOWF is certainly in the running for most delusional.
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All is well. 1-4 against the weakest of schedules is not a problem. Danny has this. Once these veteran players truly grasp the Manning system it will be worth a few early losses.

Ridiculous to expect Wake to beat these kind of teams year in and year out. Sports has ups and downs. Get with the program, guys.
 
Less than two weeks ago the constant theme in basketball threads was how happy everyone was with the job Manning was doing and how happy we are to have him. Now 10 days later he's destroying the program. That's really astonishing to me.
 
knowell said:
All is well. 1-4 against the weakest of schedules is not a problem. Danny has this. Once these veteran players truly grasp the Manning system it will be worth a few early losses.

Ridiculous to expect Wake to beat these kind of teams year in and year out. Sports has ups and downs. Get with the program, guys.
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Yep. The mental gymnastics by some to rationalize a 1-4 record against absolute shitty competition is ... well... entertaining!!!
 
mebanedeac said:
I think I will just ignor basketball this season. It will be better for my mental and emotional health.
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It helps when your program plays in a dumpster preseason tournament that can't get legitimate TV coverage. That said, game-end alerts on your phone will tell you all you need to know about this garbage team, while simultaneously giving you 2-2.5 hours back on each game day. 10/10 would recommend.
 
guitardeac said:
Less than two weeks ago the constant theme in basketball threads was how happy everyone was with the job Manning was doing and how happy we are to have him. Now 10 days later he's destroying the program. That's really astonishing to me.
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Historically unprecedented losses, even after the abortion of 2011-2014 regime, will turn a few heads. As will the realization of just how much John Collins masked our coaching deficiencies.
 
It's always weird when posters condemn astonishingly bad fan reactions to astonishing bad losses.
 
OblongPickle said:
Then everyone will just say that our Top 10 recruiting class needs to mature and our hopefully great 2019 class needs a chance to show what they can do.

:noidea:
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So you want to make a new hire, lose the recruiting class, and let the new coach bring in a late notice recruiting class of 2 stars and transfers? That's always worked out so well.
 
The obvious quandry and reason for bipolar behavior over a 2-3 week period is really clear for anyone that understands coaching college bball and quite understandable. 2-3 weeks ago there was a lot of euphoria as WF landed one of its best recruiting classes ever with lots of talent/upside and many will say that is 90% of the equation for success in college bball. But then a team with very good guard talent (not great but potentially All ACCer with a 3 point ace and a promising lil Chill) and a # of bigs that DM recruited over the years and in theory has been coaching over the years looks like the worse ever WF BBall team to ever step on the court. The most troubling of these aspects is the utter lack of D and rebounding when you have 3 7 footers and saw the exact same thing last year.

So is it acceptable to have a coach that can't coach the Xs and the Os, but might be succesful getting the Jimmys and the Joes???? Will the Jimmy and the Joes still commit if we end up 5-20 on the year???

Major major reason for concerns and you have to be crazy to stick your head in the sand and think we are OK because we got play in game with a top NBA talent last year especially the way KSU torched us. Davey O looks like coach K compared to the product DM is putting on the floor. It doesn't look good right now and here is to hoping DM can keep the ship from flooding as this team has to be absolute beyond discouraged and possibly checking out.

Can
 
The obvious quandry and reason for bipolar behavior over a 2-3 week period is really clear for anyone that understands coaching college bball and quite understandable. 2-3 weeks ago there was a lot of euphoria as WF landed one of its best recruiting classes ever with lots of talent/upside and many will say that is 90% of the equation for success in college bball. But then a team with very good guard talent (not great but potentially All ACCer with a 3 point ace and a promising lil Chill) and a # of bigs that DM recruited over the years and in theory has been coaching over the years looks like the worse ever WF BBall team to ever step on the court. The most troubling of these aspects is the utter lack of D and rebounding when you have 3 7 footers and saw the exact same thing last year.

So is it acceptable to have a coach that can't coach the Xs and the Os, but might be succesful getting the Jimmys and the Joes???? Will the Jimmy and the Joes still commit if we end up 5-20 on the year???

Major major reason for concerns and you have to be crazy to stick your head in the sand and think we are OK because we got play in game with a top NBA talent last year especially the way KSU torched us. Davey O looks like coach K compared to the product DM is putting on the floor. It doesn't look good right now and here is to hoping DM can keep the ship from flooding as this team has to be absolute beyond discouraged and possibly checking out.

Can
 
My point was simply this: People were happy based on 4 plus years with the job Manning had done and the direction of the program. I mean LEGITIMATELY happy. Crowing about what he has done with the program. Trust in Danny. And then 10 days overrules that? That makes NO sense at all. Yep, the start to this season SUCKS. But DAMN.
 
guitardeac said:
My point was simply this: People were happy based on 4 plus years with the job Manning had done and the direction of the program. I mean LEGITIMATELY happy. Crowing about what he has done with the program. Trust in Danny. And then 10 days overrules that? That makes NO sense at all. Yep, the start to this season SUCKS. But DAMN.
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Some people, yes. Danny improved the recruiting trajectory of the program (although that may start to go down to where it was now that we are on pace to win about 5 games and get creamed in conference), but it was also plainly obvious that this job was OTJ training for his X and O abilities. We are now in Year 4 of DM, and this is his 6th year overall as HC after 2 years at Tulsa, not to mention about half a century at KU as an assistant. These ten days aren't just ten days. They're ten of the worst days in the history of WF hoops. A loss to Quinnawhatever is the only way it could've been worse. There is no reason for him to get the benefit of the doubt, no reason to think anything is going to get better when this level of in-game and general coaching incompetence is on display time and time again. And if it isn't the strategy but the personnel in place or players not getting motivated, then that's on DM too.
 
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