Ari Stewart and J.T. Terrell finally get a coach fired

[RacerDeac]

I thought he had no track record, and that was the problem?! Even assuming you believe the running off wasn't self inflicted; doesn't Saban over-recruit? I've never heard anyone acuse him of running off players, even though it seems to be a designed practice.

I hear about it all of the time, negatively from fans of other programs with regards to the way SEC "does business" in football. Heard about it while Butch Davis was doing it at UNC too. That said, comparing Bz's practice of running players off to Saban is as bad as your comparisons of Bz to Coach K's early years. Just as descpicable, but at least Saban has some results to show for being a slimebag.

8 players, 2 years at Wake. Travis was out the door until Childress talked him back. Ran off 5 players in his FIRST year at CO, Xavier Silas without ANY stated reason whatsoever.

 

[Schwabber89]

I hear about it all of the time, negatively from fans of other programs with regards to the way SEC "does business" in football. Heard about it while Butch Davis was doing it at UNC too. That said, comparing Bz's practice of running players off to Saban is as bad as your comparisons of Bz to Coach K's early years. 8 players, 2 years. Ran off 5 while he was at CO IIRC, Xavier Silas without ANY stated reason whatsoever.

All I can say is in my observation every player we have seems to genuinely want to play hard, learn and win. Can't say I have seen that in quite a while.

 

[RacerDeac]

All I can say is in my observation every player we have seems to genuinely want to play hard, learn and win. Can't say I have seen that in quite a while.

You'd play hard too when Bz holds your scholarship over your head. Playing hard is a compliment old white guys like to give...I'll take a team that actually wins rather than "genuinely wants to win."

 

[mebanedeac]

You'd play hard too when Bz holds your scholarship over your head. Playing hard is a compliment old white guys like to give...I'll take a team that actually wins rather than "genuinely wants to win."

unbelievable! just unbelievable.

 

[Schwabber89]

You'd play hard too when Bz holds your scholarship over your head. Playing hard is a compliment old white guys like to give...I'll take a team that actually wins rather than "genuinely wants to win."

Well, glad to see you admit we are playing hard; and I am not an old white guy.

 

[IrishSlim]

I thought he had no track record, and that was the problem?! Even assuming you believe the "running off" wasn't self inflicted; doesn't Saban over-recruit? I've never heard anyone acuse him of running off players, even though it seems to be a designed practice.

Not sure about all the straw men you create in this post, but yeah, Bzzz has a long track record of running off players. That's part of the reason why both the fan bases at Air Force and Colorado still despise him - he chased off players, then left himself shortly thereafter.

Also, you know who claims they aren't old guys? Old guys. I look forward to doing it myself someday.

 

[IrishSlim]

All I can say is in my observation every player we have seems to genuinely want to play hard, learn and win. Can't say I have seen that in quite a while.

I hate that those players that don't genuinely want to play hard. Oh wait. They don't exist. Just another straw man.

 

[devi8]

I hate that those players that don't genuinely want to play hard. Oh wait. They don't exist. Just another straw man.

are you saying that lazy players don't exist?

 

[IrishSlim]

are you saying that lazy players don't exist?

Don't splice words. I'm saying no D1 basketball player doesn't genuinely want to play hard. To claim otherwise is fucking inane foolish nonsense. It's up to coaches to help get them to maximize their ability. Do some players exert more effort than others? Of course. But even Ty Walker went home from practice believing he played hard. It's too damn bad he never had a coach like Skip who was willing to put in the teaching and mentoring necessary to show him otherwise.

 

[Deac83]

There is a huge difference between 'believing' you played hard and actually playing hard. I'd dare say that making the jump from high school to college requires another level that not everyone is prepared for. In high school many of these kids are so much better than most of the kids they are playing against they can rely on their talent alone. Come to college and suddenly you are playing with and against kids that are just as talented as you.

 

[IrishSlim]

All I can say is in my observation every player we have seems to genuinely want to play hard, learn and win. Can't say I have seen that in quite a while.

Reading. It's fundamental. (And its finer nuances such as comprehension apparently weren't always stressed at Wake.)

 

[WinkinDeac]

O'Neill, who turns 56 on Jan. 24, was asked if he wants to coach again.

"Yeah, I think I do," he said. "I'm not sure. I love coaching. We'll see what happens. Good coaches get fired every day. That's the way it is. It's a hazard of the business."

and the mediocre ones get contract extensions.

 

[DCDeac]

Don't splice words. I'm saying no D1 basketball player doesn't genuinely want to play hard. To claim otherwise is fucking inane foolish nonsense. It's up to coaches to help get them to maximize their ability. Do some players exert more effort than others? Of course. But even Ty Walker went home from practice believing he played hard. It's too damn bad he never had a coach like Skip who was willing to put in the teaching and mentoring necessary to show him otherwise.

This is a ridiculous assertion.

Plenty of players genuinely do not want to put the work in. The idea that every player "believes" they're working hard but in reality some are and some aren't is laughable.

I can't even get my head around the idea that someone could actually believe this.

 

[bcobbdeacs]

Remember that the Scholarships are one year contracts that are renewable yearly so I guess everyones Scholarship is held over their head.

 

[RacerDeac]

Remember that the Scholarships are one year contracts that are renewable yearly so I guess everyones Scholarship is held over their head.

Do you really support running a program in such a way that if [Redacted] decides he can recruit a better player, he would simply tell a sophomore "Sorry, you can't come back next year because I need to free up your scholarship and you're simply not scoring enough points to deserve it." That's the way you run a Professional organization, not the way you treat a student-athlete. Good luck getting quality players to commit to a program where that becomes the norm (assuming you're paying players on the side...see comments about Pro organization above).

That's the ultimate irony of this culture argument from Wellman. He doesn't want players who are looking ahead to the NBA, but he hires a coach with "NBA connections" (that he pimped all over the place at the time of the hire) who treats his roster like a bunch of paid professionals, firing them as needed to attempt to get someone better.

 

[CHillDeac]

Do you really support running a program in such a way that if [Redacted] decides he can recruit a better player, he would simply tell a sophomore "Sorry, you can't come back next year because I need to free up your scholarship and you're simply not scoring enough points to deserve it." That's the way you run a Professional organization, not the way you treat a student-athlete. Good luck getting quality players to commit to a program where that becomes the norm (assuming you're paying players on the side...see comments about Pro organization above).

That's basically what Larry Brown did in his first week on the job at SMU. He held player evaluations and decided to not renew the scholarships of 4 or 5 players from the previous season's 13-18 team, including the returning starting PG. Half way through this season they've already won 11 games.

 

[Strickland33]

Half way through this season they've already won 11 games.

So the ends (winning) justify the means (failing to honor kids' scholarships that they had earned under previous coaches)?

Now, that's a culture that I can believe in.

 

[Deac83]

What's funny to me is if we were out of scholarships and had a 5* that wanted to come here, I'd bet quite a few of the, scholarships should be for 4 years crew, would be more than willing to offer up the head of the kids at the end of the bench.

You can't have it both ways, schools are 'expected' not required to let players out of their LOI's when there is a coaching change. The schools don't have to do it and if the kid wants to leave he has to wait 2 years. But other than some schools saying 'well let you out' but you can't go to certain schools (which seems to usually involve some sort of 'tampering') it rarely if ever happens.

I wouldn't make it a regular practice of not renewing scholarships, but I'd much rather have the kids understanding it's a possibility.

There wasn't any outrage here when we declined to not offer Cameron Stanley a 5th year, that I recall (I know not exactly the same but I believe it was our choice and not his).

 

[RJKarl]

"I wouldn't make it a regular practice of not renewing scholarships, but I'd much rather have the kids understanding it's a possibility."

This among the worst policies any school could ever have. You'd get killed by opposing coaches and boosters.

You can't compare a new coach cleaning house to an ongoing threat.

Do this and doom a program.

 

[Strickland33]

There wasn't any outrage here when we declined to not offer Cameron Stanley a 5th year, that I recall (I know not exactly the same but I believe it was our choice and not his).

It's not the same at all. He wasn't going to play at Wake and had his degree. He received playing time at Winthrop. I'm not sure there was any bad blood between Wake and Cam.

There's no outrage because there's no controversy.