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Our Next BB Coach or #MannUp + other coach talk

Except he doesn't have a record. He hasn't made The Dance.

If it's between Manning and White, it's a no contest for Manning. Manning has been part of better programs. Manning has recruited better players. Manning i considered one of the best big man's coach in the country. Manning won the conference tourney in White's conference with a team that was projected not to be as good a team.

White was 6.5 games better over his first two regular seasons as a HC than Manning, but didn't make The Dance. In fact LaTech lost to the #9 seed in 2013 and to Manning's Tulsa team in 2014.

If it's Manning or White, past performances and assistant coach positions give it easily to Manning.
 
VaDeac said:
@GoodmanESPN: New Tulsa coach Frank Haith has hired Tom Abatemarco on his staff, source told ESPN.

The sleazy guy Ron wouldn't let Bz bring to Wake.
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aka the guy who actually recruited Andre Roberson
 
RJKarl said:
Except he doesn't have a record. He hasn't made The Dance.

If it's between Manning and White, it's a no contest for Manning. Manning has been part of better programs. Manning has recruited better players. Manning i considered one of the best big man's coach in the country. Manning won the conference tourney in White's conference with a team that was projected not to be as good a team.

White was 6.5 games better over his first two regular seasons as a HC than Manning, but didn't make The Dance. In fact LaTech lost to the #9 seed in 2013 and to Manning's Tulsa team in 2014.

If it's Manning or White, past performances and assistant coach positions give it easily to Manning.
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I'm fine with Manning and I'm excited to see what he can do here, but you do realize that making the NCAA Tournament by winning a conference tournament in Conference USA is really not all that impressive.

I started paying attention to LTU at the height of apetite's love affair and always came away impressed with how well prepared and well coached Mike White's teams looked. I seem to remember that you're not into kenpom, but LA Tech also finished at #34 with two NIT wins (and wins against NCAA tourney teams Oklahoma and Tulsa) versus Tulsa's #73 and getting spanked by my BRUINS (and split the series with LA Tech).
 
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WFU Lurker said:
I think it's quite rational to think that the better track record is the one with more wins at a worse program. Seems pretty straight forward to me.
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The guy has not even won the conference title. How is his track record def. better, when the other option won the conference title in his 2nd year there?
 
RJKarl said:
Except he doesn't have a record. He hasn't made The Dance.

If it's between Manning and White, it's a no contest for Manning. Manning has been part of better programs. Manning has recruited better players. Manning i considered one of the best big man's coach in the country. Manning won the conference tourney in White's conference with a team that was projected not to be as good a team.

White was 6.5 games better over his first two regular seasons as a HC than Manning, but didn't make The Dance. In fact LaTech lost to the #9 seed in 2013 and to Manning's Tulsa team in 2014.

If it's Manning or White, past performances and assistant coach positions give it easily to Manning.
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No. I know this is your schtick, but Manning certainly doesn't "easily" have a better track record than White. Manning's predecessor at Tulsa had a 0.603 record, with one losing season, the first one. Manning, in a weaker C-USA, had a 0.567 record. White's predecessor at La Tech had a 0.437 record (1 winning season). White, inclusive of a transition to a tougher conference, has a 0.705 record (3 out of 3 winning seasons). Throw out that one single game, and there wouldn't be any argument that White has the superior track record. And, even with that one single game, the argument against White is pretty weak.

La Tech's data isn't readily available, but I think it's a reasonable guess that White's last two teams won the most games of any team in La Tech history. Manning's best team won the 13th most games of the 20 last Tulsa teams. Yes, there's something to be said for winning when it matters most, but I'll take the sample size of 30 over the sample size of 1 or 2 every single time. Argue with me otherwise if you choose, but certainly don't argue that it is an easy call that Manning has a better track record than White. That simply isn't rational at all.
 
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TUA01576 said:
The guy has not even won the conference title. How is his track record def. better, when the other option won the conference title in his 2nd year there?
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Because sample size of 1.

Seems pretty clear cut to me.
 
Also posted here because this was the right thread for it:

Based on the results of all the coaching searches this spring, it seems to me that Smart, White, Miller, and Marshall were never really at play in the market. Makes me feel much better about Manning as the hire.

And Howland still can't sniff a job.
 
ArlingtonDeac said:
Also posted here because this was the right thread for it:

Based on the results of all the coaching searches this spring, it seems to me that Smart, White, Miller, and Marshall were never really at play in the market. Makes me feel much better about Manning as the hire.

And Howland still can't sniff a job.
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Agreed 100%. Would rather have Manning than Tyndall every time. And seems clear that White really didn't want to move on and that we didn't just flub it up.
 
WFU Lurker said:
No. I know this is your schtick, but Manning certainly doesn't "easily" have a better track record than White. Manning's predecessor at Tulsa had a 0.603 record, with one losing season, the first one. Manning, in a weaker C-USA, had a 0.567 record. White's predecessor at La Tech had a 0.437 record (1 winning season). White, inclusive of a transition to a tougher conference, has a 0.705 record (3 out of 3 winning seasons). Throw out that one single game, and there wouldn't be any argument that White has the superior track record. And, even with that one single game, the argument against White is pretty weak.

La Tech's data isn't readily available, but I think it's a reasonable guess that White's last two teams won the most games of any team in La Tech history. Manning's best team won the 13th most games of the 20 last Tulsa teams. Yes, there's something to be said for winning when it matters most, but I'll take the sample size of 30 over the sample size of 1 or 2 every single time. Argue with me otherwise if you choose, but certainly don't argue that it is an easy call that Manning has a better track record than White. That simply isn't rational at all.
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It's no schtick. White's record was 6.5 games better over his first two years than Manning's 45-23 versus 38-29.

White's team lost as the #1 seed to a #9 seed during the WAC tourney. White's team lost as the #1 seed to Manning's #2 seed in CUSA.

Manning was a successful assistant at a much higher program. He developed many NBA big men while at Kansas. That's not schtick. It's results.

Manning was involved with recruiting at the very highest level as an assistant and as a player. White wasn't at that level. Manning has a deeper understanding of how to talk to top recruits and what they are listening for.

This isn't schtick. I never had White higher 3rd or 4th on my list. I didn't think Manning was in play. Between the two of them, we got the better one.
 
ArlingtonDeac said:
Also posted here because this was the right thread for it:

Based on the results of all the coaching searches this spring, it seems to me that Smart, White, Miller, and Marshall were never really at play in the market. Makes me feel much better about Manning as the hire.

And Howland still can't sniff a job.
Click to expand...

I think White was in play for the right offer. From what has been told, Smart was wavering.

The Howland situation reminded me of this line from Field of Dreams:

"Shoeless Joe Jackson: Ty Cobb wanted to play, but none of us could stand the son-of-a-bitch when we were alive, so we told him to stick it!"
 
RJKarl said:
It's no schtick. White's record was 6.5 games better over his first two years than Manning's 45-23 versus 38-29.

White's team lost as the #1 seed to a #9 seed during the WAC tourney. White's team lost as the #1 seed to Manning's #2 seed in CUSA.

Manning was a successful assistant at a much higher program. He developed many NBA big men while at Kansas. That's not schtick. It's results.

Manning was involved with recruiting at the very highest level as an assistant and as a player. White wasn't at that level. Manning has a deeper understanding of how to talk to top recruits and what they are listening for.

This isn't schtick. I never had White higher 3rd or 4th on my list. I didn't think Manning was in play. Between the two of them, we got the better one.
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Yes, it is schtick. Just like it was when [Redacted] was hired and you were minimizing his first round MCW-T losses and arguing that his NBA experience would help recruiting.

As a head coach, White has the better track record. He took over a program that won 12 games and then won 17, 27, and 29. That's hugely impressive and does more to demonstrate his ability to elevate a program than Manning's accomplishment as an assistant (which you overstate..he's the best big man coach in the country but it's widely accepted that he played a small role at best in recruiting). It's really clear cut: White has elevated a program. Manning has not.

I don't really care where you had White on your list. You don't know as much as you think you do. (see point about [Redacted])
 
You can try to drag up mischaracterizations about my position on our former coach all you like.

The person's total background is what we chose between White and Manning.

You haven't elevated a program if you have gotten a #1 seed in multiple years in your conference and haven't closed the deal by making The Dance. You refuse to address this.
 
I like both guys. One is our coach.

I tire of semantic circle jerks. Just blow one another guys. Get it over with.
 
VaDeac said:
@GoodmanESPN: New Tulsa coach Frank Haith has hired Tom Abatemarco on his staff, source told ESPN.

The sleazy guy Ron wouldn't let Bz bring to Wake.
Click to expand...


Tad Boyle kept him on Colorado's staff for 3 years.
 
WFU Lurker said:
La Tech's data isn't readily available, but I think it's a reasonable guess that White's last two teams won the most games of any team in La Tech history. Manning's best team won the 13th most games of the 20 last Tulsa teams. Yes, there's something to be said for winning when it matters most, but I'll take the sample size of 30 over the sample size of 1 or 2 every single time. Argue with me otherwise if you choose, but certainly don't argue that it is an easy call that Manning has a better track record than White. That simply isn't rational at all.
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You're forgetting Karl Malone played for La Tech. His 1984-85 team has the school record for wins at 29-3.

La Tech's record isn't as bad as you make it out to be. They've won 19 conference championships, 6 NCAA tournament births, 6 NIT births and 18 twenty win seasons.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/latc/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/0910-mbk-Sec7.pdf
 
WakeForestRanger said:
You're forgetting Karl Malone played for La Tech. His 1984-85 team has the school record for wins at 29-3.

La Tech's record isn't as bad as you make it out to be. They've won 19 conference championships, 6 NCAA tournament births, 6 NIT births and 18 twenty win seasons.

http://grfx.cstv.com/photos/schools/latc/sports/m-baskbl/auto_pdf/0910-mbk-Sec7.pdf
Click to expand...

I am. Ok, so White's 3rd year tied for the most wins in school history.

How many tournament appearances has La Tech had since they played Wake in 1991? (hint: 0)
 
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