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grayson Allan winning shot against UVA should not have counted

bobknightfan said:
I was extremely upset. I left the coliseum and walked 13 miles to my car during the next 3 hours while Duke was playing Clemson in the 2nd game of the tournament. However, I've also said that in my 58 years of watching WF basketball, that is the only game where I thought that the officials deliberately caused WF to lose the game. That's one game in 58 years.
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You haven't been watching WF basketball for 58 years.
 
And the fact of the matter is that without that right foot touching the ground as he released the shot he likely wouldn't have had enough leverage to get the shot up to the backboard. He was positioned awkwardly, leaning way to his right to shoot around the defender. In any event, it certainly helped.
 
RChildress107 said:
That's only 10 miles from the Coliseum
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Which route did you take when you walked it?

ETA: Seriously, I thought it was around 13 miles. I didn't have any way to measure it exactly. Also, this was 41 years ago. Some of the roads you could take today to make it shorter weren't there in 1975. I remember I ended by walking down Sumner school road until it came into 220 above 62. Can't remember which roads I took to go from the coliseum until I got to Sumner road. Think I began by walking on High Point Road (now Gate City Blvd) & eventually walked by the area where Wet & Wild water park is now. I was pretty much in a state of shock after the last 52 seconds of regulation (when we had a 90-82 lead) thru the end of the overtime.

Whatever it was, it was a helluva long walk. :)
 
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I bet about 25% of the way through the walk you had some serious regrets.
 
bmoneydeac said:
I bet about 25% of the way through the walk you had some serious regrets.
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Actually, I was just as pissed off at the end of the walk as I was when I started....though quite a bit more tired. As I said, even though it was early March it was a mild day with the temperatures probably in the 50s....so that helped. Also, I was 28 years old at the time. That helped, too.

Definitely the worst loss I ever experienced, considering who we were playing and the way the defeat happened.....after leading by 8 points with 52 seconds left in the game.

The Scoreboard Play occurred with around 25 seconds to play. We were leading by 4 and Schellenberg's long pass over the press to Skip resulted in a layup & a foul to send Skip to the line to stretch the lead to 7....we thought. The call took the layup off the boards and gave Carolina the ball under their own basket with the lead still at 4.

Another piece of trivia about that game was that after Carolina scored to cut the lead to 2, Skip was fouled with around 10 or 11 seconds to play. He had a 1 & 1 to seal the win. (No 3-point shot then.) Skip missed the FT....and it was the only FT he ever missed in an ACCT game during his 4 years at Wake. (And Brad Hoffman's shot at the buzzer sent the game into OT at 90-90.)

The overtime...which most people seem to have forgotten after the Scoreboard Play....was another disaster. Three of our starters fouled out and then Hank Nichols' technical foul on Wake for not forcing the action when Carolina was holding for a final shot gave Carolina the FT that won the game 101-100.
 
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bobknightfan said:
You're right. 38 years...over a 58-year period. 1957 thru 1985 and 2005 thru 2016.
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Bob Knight, were you as pissed off as the real Bob Knight was that night in Winston-Salem, March 14, 1997, when Indiana lost to Colorado 80-62 in the 1st round of the NCAA tourney? Coach Knight was so mad he walked from the LJVM all the way back to his hotel in downtown Winston-Salem!
 
bobknightfan said:
Actually, I was just as pissed off at the end of the walk as I was when I started....though quite a bit more tired. As I said, even though it was early March it was a mild day with the temperatures probably in the 50s....so that helped. Also, I was 28 years old at the time. That helped, too.

Definitely the worst loss I ever experienced, considering who we were playing and the way the defeat happened.....after leading by 8 points with 52 seconds left in the game.

The Scoreboard Play occurred with around 25 seconds to play. We were leading by 4 and Schellenberg's long pass over the press to Skip resulted in a layup & a foul to send Skip to the line to stretch the lead to 7....we thought. The call took the layup off the boards and gave Carolina the ball under their own basket with the lead still at 4.

Another piece of trivia about that game was that after Carolina scored to cut the lead to 2, Skip was fouled with around 10 or 11 seconds to play. He had a 1 & 1 to seal the win. (No 3-point shot then.) Skip missed the FT....and it was the only FT he ever missed in an ACCT game during his 4 years at Wake. (And Brad Hoffman's shot at the buzzer sent the game into OT at 90-90.)

The overtime...which most people seem to have forgotten after the Scoreboard Play....was another disaster. Three of our starters fouled out and then Hank Nichols' technical foul on Wake for not forcing the action when Carolina was holding for a final shot gave Carolina the FT that won the game 101-100.
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Scoreboard play was called by Fred Hikel. He took the ultimate charge years later when he died after being hit by a car. Thoughts are he was called for the block.
 
TheReff said:
Bob Knight, were you as pissed off as the real Bob Knight was that night in Winston-Salem, March 14, 1997, when Indiana lost to Colorado 80-62 in the 1st round of the NCAA tourney? Coach Knight was so mad he walked from the LJVM all the way back to his hotel in downtown Winston-Salem!
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I was at that game, too. That one didn't hurt as much, though, because the Hoosiers were beaten badly from the get-go. Coach Knight was undoubtedly enraged by the way his team played. It was a shame, too, because a win would have set up a game in the next round against Dean Smith's Tar Heels.
 
Just a personal observation in response to the mention of Hank Nichols.

He and Joe Forte were the best to ever officiate in the ACC.

We need some guys like that now. We have too many Lenny Wertz clones.

Just my opinion.
 
TheReff said:
Scoreboard play was called by Fred Hikel. He took the ultimate charge years later when he died after being hit by a car. Thoughts are he was called for the block.
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Yes, Hikel made the scoreboard call, then Nichols made the technical call at the end of OT. If I'm not mistaken, that was the last ACC game that Fred Hikel ever called.

I talked with Carl about the technical foul call later at a Deacon Club meeting at the Asheboro Country Club. We had been warned early in the OT about forcing the action in what was an OT played "close to the vest" by both teams so, legally, there was no requirement to give a 2nd warning. However, Carl told me that he had talked to some Big Ten officials about the situation and they told him that...at the very least....an official would have been close to the defensive team's bench giving a clearly visable hand count to let it be known to all that something must be done by the defense....and that they would be very hesitant to make a technical foul call in that kind of situation (tie game at the end of overtime). Nichols, though, did not give a visual hand count. He simply waited for five seconds after Carolina crossed the midcourt line & Wake had set up in a zone.....everyone knew Carolina was going to hold for the last shot....and proceeded to call the technical foul.
 
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bobknightfan said:
Yes, Hikel made the scoreboard call, then Nichols made the technical call at the end of OT. If I'm not mistaken, that was the last ACC game that Fred Hikel ever called.

I talked with Carl about the technical foul call later at a Deacon Club meeting at the Asheboro Country Club. We had been warned early in the OT about forcing the action in what was an OT played "close to the vest" by both teams so, legally, there was no requirement to give a 2nd warning. However, Carl told me that he had talked to some Big Ten officials about the situation and they told him that...at the very least....an official would have been close to the defensive team's bench giving a clearly visable hand count to let it be known to all that something must be done by the defense....and that they would be very hesitant to make a technical foul call in that kind of situation (tie game at the end of overtime). Nichols, though, did not give a visual hand count. He simply waited for five seconds after Carolina crossed the midcourt line & Wake had set up in a zone.....everyone knew Carolina was going to hold for the last shot....and proceeded to call the technical foul.
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That sounds ridiculous. I'm glad the rules of basketball have evolved and improved to include a shot clock.
 
Rafi said:
That sounds ridiculous. I'm glad the rules of basketball have evolved and improved to include a shot clock.
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Yes, the shot clock is a major advance. Getting rid of the horrendous 5 second rule via the 30 second clock is a further plus.
 
mebanedeac said:
Yes, the shot clock is a major advance. Getting rid of the horrendous 5 second rule via the 30 second clock is a further plus.
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I agree with that...though I think 30 seconds is too short. I would have preferred to have it at 40 seconds, or at least 35. However, there was still no reason for Hank Nichols to take it upon himself to decide an ACCT game....which he did when he called that technical foul....in that situation: Tie game at the very end of overtime.
 
bobknightfan said:
Actually, I was just as pissed off at the end of the walk as I was when I started....though quite a bit more tired. As I said, even though it was early March it was a mild day with the temperatures probably in the 50s....so that helped. Also, I was 28 years old at the time. That helped, too.

Definitely the worst loss I ever experienced, considering who we were playing and the way the defeat happened.....after leading by 8 points with 52 seconds left in the game.

The Scoreboard Play occurred with around 25 seconds to play. We were leading by 4 and Schellenberg's long pass over the press to Skip resulted in a layup & a foul to send Skip to the line to stretch the lead to 7....we thought. The call took the layup off the boards and gave Carolina the ball under their own basket with the lead still at 4.

Another piece of trivia about that game was that after Carolina scored to cut the lead to 2, Skip was fouled with around 10 or 11 seconds to play. He had a 1 & 1 to seal the win. (No 3-point shot then.) Skip missed the FT....and it was the only FT he ever missed in an ACCT game during his 4 years at Wake. (And Brad Hoffman's shot at the buzzer sent the game into OT at 90-90.)

The overtime...which most people seem to have forgotten after the Scoreboard Play....was another disaster. Three of our starters fouled out and then Hank Nichols' technical foul on Wake for not forcing the action when Carolina was holding for a final shot gave Carolina the FT that won the game 101-100.
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If this happened today I can almost guarantee you would blame the loss on our players rather than the refs and whine about millennials whining about the refs.
 
I had forgotten the rule regarding forcing action. A bad rule and a terrible time to enforce it.

Notwithstanding I do think Nichols was an exceptionally good ref.
 
RChildress107 said:
If this happened today I can almost guarantee you would blame the loss on our players rather than the refs and whine about millennials whining about the refs.
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Why are you constantly trying to pick a fight with me? I don't mind, but it's so plainly obvious that you seem to have some kind of obsession with it. You have already made several such posts again today.
 
mebanedeac said:
I had forgotten the rule regarding forcing action. A bad rule and a terrible time to enforce it.

Notwithstanding I do think Nichols was an exceptionally good ref.
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As do I. We all make mistakes at times, and I think this was one of his. However, I agree with you that he was an excellent official.
 
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