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The Islamic Dilemma

sailordeac said:
there are parts of the Koran that you might familiarize yourself with

you might start here:

https://wikiislam.net/wiki/Crucifixion
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Well I'm pretty sure we have a compelling government interest in preventing crucifixion. But we don't have the same interest in preventing people from covering their faces.

Forcing individuals to embrace Western Culture (which is what you were talking about) is different than preventing individuals from violating the rights of individuals which are central to western values.
 
RChildress107 said:
Well I'm pretty sure we have a compelling government interest in preventing crucifixion. But we don't have the same interest in preventing people from covering their faces.

Forcing individuals to embrace Western Culture (which is what you were talking about) is different than preventing individuals from violating the rights of individuals which are central to western values.
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Let's let the community decide what is a compelling government interest.

I am far from trying to force anybody to embrace western values. On the other hand, communities, all over the world, have the right to set standards of outward conformity, and they do this all the time, i.e. define disturbances, ban nudity, set noise limits, set times for operating businesses, or even building codes, to mention only a few.
 
Deacon923 said:
Interesting analysis of the use of suicide bombing as a military tactic. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/brussels-attacks-terrorism-isis/474858/ The author is making the point that suicide bombing is not, at its source, a religious act, but rather a military tactic used to achieve military and political ends. The religious trappings around it are used to justify and legitimize the tactic.
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Shrewd Leaders use fanatical fantasy beliefs to further their own ends??!
 
Deacon923 said:
Interesting analysis of the use of suicide bombing as a military tactic. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2016/03/brussels-attacks-terrorism-isis/474858/ The author is making the point that suicide bombing is not, at its source, a religious act, but rather a military tactic used to achieve military and political ends. The religious trappings around it are used to justify and legitimize the tactic.
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In short, the Islamic state has declared war on western civilization and using the Muslims in Europe to attack the communities in which they live. Sitting around, doing little, or pretending that this is not so, or not a threat, is a huge mistake.
 
sailordeac said:
In short, the Islamic state has declared war on western civilization and using the Muslims in Europe to attack the communities in which they live. Sitting around, doing little, or pretending that this is not so, or not a threat, is a huge mistake.
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Perhaps. The question is what are the goals of "western civilization" with respect to this issue, what can be done to further those goals, and how to analyze the various options. If the goal is to reduce or eliminate suicide attacks in Europe, a perfectly rational response may be to do nothing. Bombing the shit of Muslims in the middle east has the predictable result of causing Muslims to try and bomb the shit out of the West. On the other hand, the goal may be to engage in an epic clash of civilizations and fight a war to eradicate Islamic State. If that is the case, then "western civilization" is going to have to accept a lot of risks as part of that war, continued suicide attacks being one of them. Europe is not Israel, a tiny state that can effectively build a wall around itself, no matter how much certain European actors might wish it were otherwise. In making such decisions, "western civilization" ought also to examine the track record of Western interference in Islamic societies and determine how, exactly, this time will be different.
 
pretty weird to wish we had AQ back. at least their goal was just to drive the West out of the middle east.
 
ImTheCaptain said:
i dunno, OBL was pretty clear about it. Their repeatedly stated goals were a lot different than ISIS'
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Al Qaeda wanted a caliphate established as a long term goal. Had they succeeded in forcing the US to abandon the region that long term goal would have been next on the agenda.
 
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