Wake Forest @ NC State Game Thread

[Pilchard]

I love it when WF plays Sarr and Moore together. Creates massive matchup problems for the opponents. WF was killing State inside when they played together and giving up nothing inside on defense, despite the fact that Sarr and Moore haven't played together often. Also, unlike the guards, both Sarr and Moore are committed to pounding the ball inside to the big man posting up. Boggles my mind that anyone watching last night's game would claim that playing Sarr and Moore together is a bad thing as WF collapsed at the end when they only played one at a time.

 

[thatguy2016]

also loved seeing them play together

the problem with playing them together is that neither of them are 40-minute guys this year; 30 minutes each is probably at or close to the effective max

and we need one of them on the floor; therefore I'd like to see twin towers for 20 minutes + Moore alone for 10 + Sarr alone for 10

 

[PhDeac]

Exactly, Pilch. Exactly. Playing Moore and Sarr together gives us some advantage on most teams we play. It would be a crime not to use it.

 

[Ayo]

The 15-0 run in the 1st half started right when Doral and Sarr were in the game together, no?

 

[Bourrc9]

The 15-0 run in the 1st half started right when Doral and Sarr were in the game together, no?

Correct. And then they finished the game with a +5 +/- because NCST made adjustments. Look, I'm not saying they should never play together, there's plenty of times when it will work. I'm just against playing 2 of the Moore+Sarr+Thompson combo for the majority of the game which is what Manning is starting to do lately (37/40 minutes last night).

 

[DeacsATS]

Play them more. Easy fix.

I believe Sarr and Moore should play together a lot. I am not against it. I was just pointing out that it leaves a lot of time with shitty lineups. I realize that is kind of inevitable.

I don't think you can count on Moore or Sarr to consistently play more than 25 minutes a game right now, due to both fatigue and fouls.

 

[PhDeac]

The 15-0 run in the 1st half started right when Doral and Sarr were in the game together, no?

No. Moore/Mitchell were in the game went it started at 17-26. Sarr came in at the 8 min timeout at 22-26 and played for the rest of the run.

 

[PhDeac]

I believe Sarr and Moore should play together a lot. I am not against it. I was just pointing out that it leaves a lot of time with shitty lineups. I realize that is kind of inevitable.

I don't think you can count on Moore or Sarr to consistently play more than 25 minutes a game right now, due to both fatigue and fouls.

Yeah. But I think you can get a good 15-20 min of them together and 10+ min with each of them paired with TT or Mitchell.

 

[knowell]

also loved seeing them play together

the problem with playing them together is that neither of them are 40-minute guys this year; 30 minutes each is probably at or close to the effective max

and we need one of them on the floor; therefore I'd like to see twin towers for 20 minutes + Moore alone for 20 + Sarr alone for 20

This would be ideal.

Weird that our giant coach would prefer 4 guards. Keatts would have this team on the bubble.

Not sure that just letting the board decide who plays would not make this a bubble team. Most of our losses are due to playing way too much guard and not enough Chaundeac and big men.

 

[Bourrc9]

This would be ideal.

Weird that our giant coach would prefer 4 guards. Keatts would have this team on the bubble.

Not sure that just letting the board decide who plays would not make this a bubble team. Most of our losses are due to playing way too much guard and not enough Chaundeac and big men.

You realize we have played a 4 guard lineup for less than 20 minutes in our 6 acc games right? But yeah that's probably the reason we suck. Did you get dropped on the head as a child?

 

[Bourrc9]

You realize we have played a 4 guard lineup for less than 20 minutes in our 6 acc games right? But yeah that's probably the reason we suck. Did you get dropped on the head as a child?

Also Keatts played 4 guards for the like the last 10 minutes last night - not sure what you're getting at here.

 

[knowell]

You realize we have played a 4 guard lineup for less than 20 minutes in our 6 acc games right? But yeah that's probably the reason we suck. Did you get dropped on the head as a child?

What about the 4 guard line-up do you like most?

The off the dribble jacked up 3's?
The constant turnovers?
The lack of rebound?
The inability to defend?
The confidence it inspires in our opponents?

Did you miss the early games this year that we lost to Sunbelt teams because of it?

I like 2 guards. Once in a while a 3rd guard. Never 4 unless your opponent is forced to foul.

 

[Bourrc9]

LMAOOOOOO

 

[Pilchard]

FWIW, I not jumping on the Keatts bandwagon yet. Thought their defensive strategy of constant ball pressure while leaving the interior exposed was exploited all night until WF's self-imposed late game meltdown. On offense, if State doesn't get transition hoops off their D, they just jack up a lot of bad threes. Not arguing that Keatts is a bad as many of State's previous hoop hires (e.g., Les Robinson, Sidney Lowe), just not ready to pine over the fact that he is coaching in Raleigh at this point. That said, if/when Keatts gets the type of athletes suited to pressure the ball for 40 minutes (like Arkansas' 40 minutes of hell back in the day), they could be a pain in the arse for a long time.

 

[Buttermaker]

You realize we have played a 4 guard lineup for less than 20 minutes in our 6 acc games right? But yeah that's probably the reason we suck. Did you get dropped on the head as a child?

Dude, time to cut your losses.

 

[wfu22fan]

You realize we have played a 4 guard lineup for less than 20 minutes in our 6 acc games right? But yeah that's probably the reason we suck. Did you get dropped on the head as a child?

Fuck you. Knowell is right. 4 guards doesn’t work for us. Chill, MW, Woods and Craw is instant offense for the opponent.

 

[tau06]

FWIW, I not jumping on the Keatts bandwagon yet. Thought their defensive strategy of constant ball pressure while leaving the interior exposed was exploited all night until WF's self-imposed late game meltdown. On offense, if State doesn't get transition hoops off their D, they just jack up a lot of bad threes. Not arguing that Keatts is a bad as many of State's previous hoop hires (e.g., Les Robinson, Sidney Lowe), just not ready to pine over the fact that he is coaching in Raleigh at this point. That said, if/when Keatts gets the type of athletes suited to pressure the ball for 40 minutes (like Arkansas' 40 minutes of hell back in the day), they could be a pain in the arse for a long time.

Keatts needs guards people that can shoot and that can drive penetrate on top of what he expects pressure wise. He doesn't have a single player on the roster that can do what he wants to do or be a "go to scorer" on the wing. It's remarkable that he's got NCSU where we are considering our only consistent shooters are Beverly and Yurt. This team will look and play completely different next season when he gets his type of players in here + Daniels and Bryce.

Agree with everything that you guys are saying regarding Moore/Sarr together, NCSU had no answer for that last night and you guys did us a huge favor going away from it at the end. We were getting nothing inside while they were in the game.

 

[BacktoBack]

One late game issue is both bigs aren't great from the line. Moore is consistently awful. And sarr is very inconsistent. Last night was a bad night

 

[DCDeac]

Was out of town and just caught the replay. That was... unreal. What a debacle this year is. When Doral got the dunk and the foul with a couple minutes left I really thought we had it. Then those last possessions... Just absurd. Sarr tries to pass the ball when he's 3 feet from the bucket and turns it over giving them a breakaway, tied. Then Sarr hangs in the corner looking lost instead of flashing high to give Crawford an option. The result is right when he's going to pass it back to Wilbekin across the timeline an NC State defender jumps toward Wilbekin and Crawford has to pass it behind the line and it's a 10 second call. Manning yanks him for Chill. Next we get NC State on offense, they accidentally throw the ball off Yurtseven's face and it ricocheted so far that Crawford can't get it and they hit a jumper. Okey dokey. Childress immediately breaks the press with Wilbekin, we get a great screen on a ball reversal to Crawford who splits the defense for a layup. But he misses it and Yurtseven maybe gets away with basket interference. Next Beverly puts his head down and dribbles straight into a double team and is totally dead pinned on the baseline under the basket, but Woods actually drops his hands and stops playing defense for a second, giving him a passing lane and they hit an elbow jumper. Then it's just a cluster fuck. Wilbekin just blindly jacks a 3 like we're down 9 points instead of 4, despite the fact that Doral is pointing at the rim with nobody in his way for a simple dunk. Would have been a 2 point game with 50 seconds. Instead we have to foul, and the game is effectively over.

It wasn't quite UVA-comeback ridiculous, but damn. Throw in the fact that Doral took two made buckets away from us on basket interference, and Craw/Chill combine for 0/9 from deep and we only made 4 threes total. It's like we're finding the most painful, absurd, and dumb ways to lose possible. Can't really fault the in-game coaching since every play was right there to be made for the win - I typically hate the 4 guard lineup as well but Sarr was a deer in headlights towards the end and NC State had zero size. The matchups didn't hurt us, just horrid execution. The Wilbekin 3 and the Crawford layup were just brutal.

 

[Buttermaker]

Was out of town and just caught the replay. That was... unreal. What a debacle this year is. When Doral got the dunk and the foul with a couple minutes left I really thought we had it. Then those last possessions... Just absurd. Sarr tries to pass the ball when he's 3 feet from the bucket and turns it over giving them a breakaway, tied. Then Sarr hangs in the corner looking lost instead of flashing high to give Crawford an option. The result is right when he's going to pass it back to Wilbekin across the timeline an NC State defender jumps toward Wilbekin and Crawford has to pass it behind the line and it's a 10 second call. Manning yanks him for Chill. Next we get NC State on offense, they accidentally throw the ball off Yurtseven's face and it ricocheted so far that Crawford can't get it and they hit a jumper. Okey dokey. Childress immediately breaks the press with Wilbekin, we get a great screen on a ball reversal to Crawford who splits the defense for a layup. But he misses it and Yurtseven maybe gets away with basket interference. Next Beverly puts his head down and dribbles straight into a double team and is totally dead pinned on the baseline under the basket, but Woods actually drops his hands and stops playing defense for a second, giving him a passing lane and they hit an elbow jumper. Then it's just a cluster fuck. Wilbekin just blindly jacks a 3 like we're down 9 points instead of 4, despite the fact that Doral is pointing at the rim with nobody in his way for a simple dunk. Would have been a 2 point game with 50 seconds. Instead we have to foul, and the game is effectively over.

It wasn't quite UVA-comeback ridiculous, but damn. Throw in the fact that Doral took two made buckets away from us on basket interference, and Craw/Chill combine for 0/9 from deep and we only made 4 threes total. It's like we're finding the most painful, absurd, and dumb ways to lose possible. Can't really fault the in-game coaching since every play was right there to be made for the win - I typically hate the 4 guard lineup as well but Sarr was a deer in headlights towards the end and NC State had zero size. The matchups didn't hurt us, just horrid execution. The Wilbekin 3 and the Crawford layup were just brutal.

I missed the end. But you paint a clear and sad picture.