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Wake Forest @ NC State Game Thread

Does anyone else get the impression that Danny and his players are on a totally different page. Looks suspiciously like the movie Cool Hand Luke "what we have here, is a failure to communicate"
 
We're essentially playing 3 on 5 on offense when Moore and Sarr are both in there. There are times when this lineup may work, especially defensively, but teams eventually adjust against it and figure it out. See last night and VT. I know there's no perfect solution given that we don't have any good 4s on this team, but would like to see Manning mix it up a little. Literally do anything. Moore, Sarr, and Thompson do not need to be playing 74 minutes. Let's not even talk about the fact that Chaundee played 5 fucking minutes last night - that's a whole different story. And Sarr and Moore played the best they have together all season last night. So maybe they are figuring it out and it's a good change of pace to play them together for 5-10 minutes a game. Give Sarr some of Thompson's minutes. But playing 2 traditional bigs the whole game is just not gonna work in the long run. Once NC State started playing 4 guards, they literally got whatever they wanted on O, spread us out and got wide open shots. We just got lucky they missed a lot of them.

I swear if I see that double ball screen one more time where Moore and Sarr both set picks for the ballhandler I'm breaking my tv. WTF is this shyt. Looks like something a middle school team would run. It's probably the easiest play to defend I've ever seen - have one defender hedge the screen and one sit back in the paint. Have we scored a point off this play all year.
 
Bourrc9 said:
We're essentially playing 3 on 5 on offense when Moore and Sarr are both in there. There are times when this lineup may work, especially defensively, but teams eventually adjust against it and figure it out. See last night and VT. I know there's no perfect solution given that we don't have any good 4s on this team, but would like to see Manning mix it up a little. Literally do anything. Moore, Sarr, and Thompson do not need to be playing 74 minutes. Let's not even talk about the fact that Chaundee played 5 fucking minutes last night - that's a whole different story. And Sarr and Moore played the best they have together all season last night. So maybe they are figuring it out and it's a good change of pace to play them together for 5-10 minutes a game. Give Sarr some of Thompson's minutes. But playing 2 traditional bigs the whole game is just not gonna work in the long run. Once NC State started playing 4 guards, they literally got whatever they wanted on O, spread us out and got wide open shots. We just got lucky they missed a lot of them.

I swear if I see that double ball screen one more time where Moore and Sarr both set picks for the ballhandler I'm breaking my tv. WTF is this shyt. Looks like something a middle school team would run. It's probably the easiest play to defend I've ever seen - have one defender hedge the screen and one sit back in the paint. Have we scored a point off this play all year.
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This is really bothering me as well. I know Chaundee has not been consistent but geez that kid needs more playing time.
 
Bourrc9 said:
I swear if I see that double ball screen one more time where Moore and Sarr both set picks for the ballhandler I'm breaking my tv. WTF is this shyt. Looks like something a middle school team would run. It's probably the easiest play to defend I've ever seen - have one defender hedge the screen and one sit back in the paint. Have we scored a point off this play all year.
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I like that play. I liked it a lot better when it was Collins and Dinos, though. Collins would go to the hoop and Dinos would slide over for a wide open 3... Lots of good options came from it. I realize it is a lot different w/ Moore and Sarr, but I don't think it's going away anytime soon.
 
Bourrc9 said:
We're essentially playing 3 on 5 on offense when Moore and Sarr are both in there. There are times when this lineup may work, especially defensively, but teams eventually adjust against it and figure it out. See last night and VT. I know there's no perfect solution given that we don't have any good 4s on this team, but would like to see Manning mix it up a little. Literally do anything. Moore, Sarr, and Thompson do not need to be playing 74 minutes. Let's not even talk about the fact that Chaundee played 5 fucking minutes last night - that's a whole different story. And Sarr and Moore played the best they have together all season last night. So maybe they are figuring it out and it's a good change of pace to play them together for 5-10 minutes a game. Give Sarr some of Thompson's minutes. But playing 2 traditional bigs the whole game is just not gonna work in the long run. Once NC State started playing 4 guards, they literally got whatever they wanted on O, spread us out and got wide open shots. We just got lucky they missed a lot of them.

I swear if I see that double ball screen one more time where Moore and Sarr both set picks for the ballhandler I'm breaking my tv. WTF is this shyt. Looks like something a middle school team would run. It's probably the easiest play to defend I've ever seen - have one defender hedge the screen and one sit back in the paint. Have we scored a point off this play all year.
Click to expand...

Moore and Sarr played 29% of the minutes and scored 38% of the points last night. Moore and Sarr were in the top 3 scorers. If we are playing 3 on 5 with Moore and Sarr together then Moore and Sarr are part of those 3.
 
PhDeac said:
Moore and Sarr played 29% of the minutes and scored 38% of the points last night. Moore and Sarr were in the top 3 scorers. If we are playing 3 on 5 with Moore and Sarr together then Moore and Sarr are part of those 3.
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Cool little stat there bud. I wasn't trying to rag on Moore and Sarr - they both played well last night. My point was playing them together clogs up our entire offense. We shot 38% from the field last night playing almost exclusively 2 bigs. It's not about placing blame between the guards and the bigs. It's on the system.
 
Bourrc9 said:
Cool little stat there bud. I wasn't trying to rag on Moore and Sarr - they both played well last night. My point was playing them together clogs up our entire offense. We shot 38% from the field last night playing almost exclusively 2 bigs. It's not about placing blame between the guards and the bigs. It's on the system.
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Not sure of your point. Lineups with Moore and Sarr were +5 on the day. I think they were on the court together for the 15-0 run. The biggest drought happened in the last two minutes after Sarr went out.
 
I'm not sure how having Moore & Sarr on the court at the same time hurts our offense. If anything, it should give our shooters more open looks on the perimeter. Of course, when you shoot 1-10 in the 2nd half, that may not be a good thing.

My only real concern with playing Moore & Sarr together, as I have stated before, is how it impacts the substitution patterns... The lineups with neither of them on the court are flat out terrible, and neither of them usually play more than 20-25 minutes a game. That leaves a lot of non-Moore and non-Sarr minutes.
 
PhDeac said:
Not sure of your point. Lineups with Moore and Sarr were +5 on the day. I think they were on the court together for the 15-0 run. The biggest drought happened in the last two minutes after Sarr went out.
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Are you really trying to use a 3 possession sample size to prove your point that a 4 guard lineup wont work? I'm not saying I have all the answers and fwiw I prefer the Moore/Sarr combo over Moore/Thompson. But when 5 of your best 6 players are guards and your refuse to go small (even for a few minutes a game) when the matchup calls for it, you're not going to have success in the long run. Manning's played almost exclusively 2 bigs in conference play and we're a few possessions away from being 0-6. You should apply for a job on Manning's staff, you'd fit right in with the crew of brain busts.
 
DeacsATS said:
I'm not sure how having Moore & Sarr on the court at the same time hurts our offense. If anything, it should give our shooters more open looks on the perimeter. Of course, when you shoot 1-10 in the 2nd half, that may not be a good thing.

My only real concern with playing Moore & Sarr together, as I have stated before, is how it impacts the substitution patterns... The lineups with neither of them on the court are flat out terrible, and neither of them usually play more than 20-25 minutes a game. That leaves a lot of non-Moore and non-Sarr minutes.
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Play them more. Easy fix.
 
Bourrc9 said:
Are you really trying to use a 3 possession sample size to prove your point that a 4 guard lineup wont work? I'm not saying I have all the answers and fwiw I prefer the Moore/Sarr combo over Moore/Thompson. But when 5 of your best 6 players are guards and your refuse to go small (even for a few minutes a game) when the matchup calls for it, you're not going to have success in the long run. Manning's played almost exclusively 2 bigs in conference play and we're a few possessions away from being 0-6. You should apply for a job on Manning's staff, you'd fit right in with the crew of brain busts.
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Not sure what game you are watching. Plenty of awful 4 guard lineups this season. Playing big is much more successful on offense and defense.
 
wait is someone arguing FOR the 4-midget offense and AGAINST Sarr and Moore?
 
Bourrc9 said:
Are you really trying to use a 3 possession sample size to prove your point that a 4 guard lineup wont work? I'm not saying I have all the answers and fwiw I prefer the Moore/Sarr combo over Moore/Thompson. But when 5 of your best 6 players are guards and your refuse to go small (even for a few minutes a game) when the matchup calls for it, you're not going to have success in the long run. Manning's played almost exclusively 2 bigs in conference play and we're a few possessions away from being 0-6. You should apply for a job on Manning's staff, you'd fit right in with the crew of brain busts.
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Oh man. What evidence are you using to back this up? Moore and Sarr together greatly improve our defense and rebounding. Moore is a good finisher and is our only reliable paint scorer. Without Moore and Sarr, we've got a bunch of questionable shooters chucking up shots.
 
knowell said:
Not sure what game you are watching. Plenty of awful 4 guard lineups this season. Playing big is much more successful on offense and defense.
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Wake has played a 4-guard lineup for a total of 11 minutes in their 6 ACC games (and 7 of these were against UNC, arguably our best game of the bunch). This number will go up slightly depending on what you want to call Melo, but doesnt change the numbers too much. But if that's enough for you to determine that they are awful, then you must know a lot more about basketball than the rest of us. Personally, I'd like to see them get some more minutes and at least see what they can do. Especially, when you're playing VT who's throwing a 6'5 guy out at center.
 
Bourrc9 said:
yeah man Chaundee's a fkin midget. Dude needs to hit the weight room!
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He's not in the 4 guard lineup. He barely sees the floor.
 
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