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Wake Forest Football 2018 Offseason Discussion

Caldwell's record is what it is, but he was a helluva good representative for Wake Forest. I wish he had just 1/2 the resources that our staff has now. When Caldwell was here, Wake paid assistants less (by a pretty good margin) than any school in the conference. Caldwell's staff was made up of Division 2 coaches because we couldn't afford to compete with ACC schools for adequate assistants. He had little support staff and not a great recruiting budget. The stadium - especially the playing surface and the locker room - was a joke. The weight room, practice facilities, etc., were far less than what most ACC schools had. Remember that Wake actually had a study going on - a year or so before Caldwell came - as to whether the school should deemphasize football. Caldwell's hands were tied here. He did about as well as anyone was going to do, given the limitations.
 
Lohengrin said:
I'd say the situation at Wake the last four years has been "every QB's dream is to play with good receivers. Until Dortch arrived, Wolford had never been able to play with a receiver of his caliber."
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Wolford's best games last year, with the exception of UL, were mostly when Dortch was out.
 
AlphaDeac said:
Caldwell's record is what it is, but he was a helluva good representative for Wake Forest. I wish he had just 1/2 the resources that our staff has now. When Caldwell was here, Wake paid assistants less (by a pretty good margin) than any school in the conference. Caldwell's staff was made up of Division 2 coaches because we couldn't afford to compete with ACC schools for adequate assistants. He had little support staff and not a great recruiting budget. The stadium - especially the playing surface and the locker room - was a joke. The weight room, practice facilities, etc., were far less than what most ACC schools had. Remember that Wake actually had a study going on - a year or so before Caldwell came - as to whether the school should deemphasize football. Caldwell's hands were tied here. He did about as well as anyone was going to do, given the limitations.
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This fails to recognize that Caldwell's predecessor had winning seasons/.500+ ACC records in fully half of the 6 seasons he coached. You might as well be apologizing for Buzz and Manning.

Edit: successor replaced by predecessor /gaffe
 
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Lohengrin said:
This fails to recognize that Caldwell's successor had winning seasons/.500+ ACC records in fully half of the 6 seasons he coached. You might as well be apologizing for Buzz and Manning.
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This should not be taken in any way as me begrudging the 8 seasons Jim was at Wake because he was a magnificent human being and represented Wake Forest wonderfully! That said, his predecessor (Bill Dooley) had the same or worse limitations as Jim did yet had 3 winning seasons in his 6 while Jim had 1 in his eight. Both were handicapped by the Wake Forest administration of the time and did the best they could but Bill definitely had the better run
 
sportsnut said:
This should not be taken in any way as me begrudging the 8 seasons Jim was at Wake because he was a magnificent human being and represented Wake Forest wonderfully! That said, his predecessor (Bill Dooley) had the same or worse limitations as Jim did yet had 3 winning seasons in his 6 while Jim had 1 in his eight. Both were handicapped by the Wake Forest administration of the time and did the best they could but Bill definitely had the better run
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The Old Trench Fighter had a pretty solid staff of seasoned assistant who'd been with him over the years. Caldwell, on the other hand, had a lot of inexperience surrounding him and it showed.
 
AlphaDeac said:
Caldwell's record is what it is, but he was a helluva good representative for Wake Forest. I wish he had just 1/2 the resources that our staff has now. When Caldwell was here, Wake paid assistants less (by a pretty good margin) than any school in the conference. Caldwell's staff was made up of Division 2 coaches because we couldn't afford to compete with ACC schools for adequate assistants. He had little support staff and not a great recruiting budget. The stadium - especially the playing surface and the locker room - was a joke. The weight room, practice facilities, etc., were far less than what most ACC schools had. Remember that Wake actually had a study going on - a year or so before Caldwell came - as to whether the school should deemphasize football. Caldwell's hands were tied here. He did about as well as anyone was going to do, given the limitations.
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We had recently beaten Oregon in the independence bowl and we were studying whether to deemphasize football? I was unaware. If the resources were shoddy how much less emphasis could it have gotten? What does deemphasize mean?
 
I think another factor weighing against JC was F$U joining the ACC. When they joined, they instantly brought the competition bar to a new level, and programs like UVA, GT, UNC*, and State all started investing more to keep up and challenge F$U. It was easier for BD to compete in the pre-F$U league, because F$U made a lot of ACC football programs better.
 
Lohengrin said:
You're effing pathetic.
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Yes facts that dispute the narrative you try to create do seem to aggravate you.

Wolford's over 300 yd games last year. Dortch played in 1 of the 4.

10/28LouisvilleW 42-32283446182.45250244.84143.511197.998.3
11/4@Notre DameL 48-37284533162.23721134.212594.920148.170.6
11/11@SyracuseW 64-43253836365.84430172.1191367.229391.292.5
BELK BOWL
12/29@Texas A&MW 55-52324940065.35040160.815684.526077.483.1
 
Lohengrin said:
This fails to recognize that Caldwell's successor had winning seasons/.500+ ACC records in fully half of the 6 seasons he coached. You might as well be apologizing for Buzz and Manning.
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But he went to church
 
AlphaDeac said:
Caldwell's record is what it is, but he was a helluva good representative for Wake Forest. I wish he had just 1/2 the resources that our staff has now. When Caldwell was here, Wake paid assistants less (by a pretty good margin) than any school in the conference. Caldwell's staff was made up of Division 2 coaches because we couldn't afford to compete with ACC schools for adequate assistants. He had little support staff and not a great recruiting budget. The stadium - especially the playing surface and the locker room - was a joke. The weight room, practice facilities, etc., were far less than what most ACC schools had. Remember that Wake actually had a study going on - a year or so before Caldwell came - as to whether the school should deemphasize football. Caldwell's hands were tied here. He did about as well as anyone was going to do, given the limitations.
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Grobe won twice as many games with the same resources.
 
Caldwell never really worked at Wake, but he is obviously a good coach and a good person to have associated with the program.
 
ChrisL68 said:
Yes facts that dispute the narrative you try to create do seem to aggravate you.

Wolford's over 300 yd games last year. Dortch played in 1 of the 4.

10/28LouisvilleW 42-32283446182.45250244.84143.511197.998.3
11/4@Notre DameL 48-37284533162.23721134.212594.920148.170.6
11/11@SyracuseW 64-43253836365.84430172.1191367.229391.292.5
BELK BOWL
12/29@Texas A&MW 55-52324940065.35040160.815684.526077.483.1
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You don't get it, do you? You're so mired in Wolford hate that you completely miss my point on Hines. Hines was a nonfactor before Dortch, like most of our other receivers (sans Cam). When Dortch went down, Hines was called in to substitute for him and being so motivated by jealousy he busted out with a career performance IN THOSE LAST GAMES WITHOUT DORTCH. It's all about Hines, not Dortch's performances per se. I mean come on, this is clear.
 
wfu22fan said:
Grobe won twice as many games with the same resources.
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He had better resources. Touchdown 2000 fundraising was wrapping up when Caldwell was fired.
 
Yeah, I'm not sure how anyone could think that Grobe and Caldwell worked with the same resources.
 
Lohengrin said:
You don't get it, do you? You're so mired in Wolford hate that you completely miss my point on Hines. Hines was a nonfactor before Dortch, like most of our other receivers (sans Cam). When Dortch went down, Hines was called in to substitute for him and being so motivated by jealousy he busted out with a career performance IN THOSE LAST GAMES WITHOUT DORTCH. It's all about Hines, not Dortch's performances per se. I mean come on, this is clear.
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Huh? Saying Wolford had his best games without his best WR, is "Wolford hate"? That makes no sense. In fact, it seems like the exact opposite.
 
Loh, looks like our starting QB is gonna be a white guy, so need to try and turn this into a race thing
 
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