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Mariano: 100%

Frosty said:
Stealing this from Reddit, but it’s good illustration of how dominant Rivera was in his role. Let’s say you’re putting together a all time baseball team to play the baseball version of the Monstars. You’re up with a save situation in the ninth. Is there any question who you give the ball to?
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Well, Nolan Ryan has 7 no-hitters, 12 one-hitters, and 18 two-hitters. If he pitched the first 8 innings, I'm not taking the ball away from him.
 
deacdixieboy said:
Eric Gagne was a failed starter and a dominant closer. If Mariano had to pitch more than 1 inning he would’ve been screwed. This is a travesty that he is the first when so many others weren’ unanimous. RP is the most over valued position ever.
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Really? Travesty?? Please....

Congrats Mariano; G.O.A.T. Well done!!
 
Frosty said:
Stealing this from Reddit, but it’s good illustration of how dominant Rivera was in his role. Let’s say you’re putting together a all time baseball team to play the baseball version of the Monstars. You’re up with a save situation in the ninth. Is there any question who you give the ball to?
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Absolutely - if you need 3 outs there a bunch of guys I'd rather take - Pedro Martinez, Sandy Koufax, Roger Clemens, Bob Gibson, Walter Johnson, Randy Johnson, etc.

Relief pitchers are relief pitchers because they aren't good enough to be starters - Rivera included. Virtually all starting pitchers would have had better numbers as relievers if they only had to worry about throwing 15-20 pitches as opposed to 100.
 
You mean the guys who sit 3-4 games between playing their sport? C’mon.
 
The concept of relief pitchers are simply inferior starters used to be true. It's not as true today with the amount of specialization that starts even in HS. Kids are trained to certain things. This includes being a closer.

If you want to rain on being a closer, you should also complain about how starters today are basically 5-7 inning players. Guys like Carlton, Robin Roberts, Walter Johnson routinely completed more games themselves each year than all of baseball does today. Should today's starters be automatically considered part-time pitchers?
 
The fact that some idiot writers kept Hank Aaron or Babe Ruth or Ty Cobb or Ken Griffey or Greg Maddux off their ballot doesn't justify keeping Rivera off a ballot this time. Rivera is not the greatest baseball player of all-time, but there is no doubt that he was the greatest closer of all-time on a team that won 4 W-S titles and a seemingly endless number of post-season games.

MR's post-season numbers are beyond ridiculous: 96 games 8-1 W-L 42 Saves 141 IP 0.70 ERA 0.76 WHIP 11.7 Ks/9. A massive sample-size of utter dominance over a 17 year period against the best of the best in the most pressure packed situations.

While a "closer" is a niche position, the distance between Rivera and the next best closer in the history of the game (Lee Smith, Rollie Fingers, Trevor Hoffman, Bruce Sutter) is greater than the distance between the greatest MLB player of all time at his position and the next best.

Hate the Yankees with a passion, and don't get me started on Derek Jeter (who no one would ever talk about if he had been drafted by the Brewers or Padres), but Rivera was deserving of unanimous selection. He was the best at his position for almost 20 years.
 
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ImTheCaptain said:
doesn't the fact that relief pitchers exist demonstrate their value
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I'm mean, it's relative. Left handed pinch hitters exists and have value. Punters exist and have value in football. But compared to other positions, the value is lower. Rivera averaged 78 innings pitched per season. Even a great 78 innings have limited value.
 
deac29 said:
I'm mean, it's relative. Left handed pinch hitters exists and have value. Punters exist and have value in football. But compared to other positions, the value is lower. Rivera averaged 78 innings pitched per season. Even a great 78 innings have limited value.
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the value is winning a game?
 
A closer typically enters the game in the 9th inning of a close game, one that’s tied or a team leads by one or two runs.

Let’s extrapolate that to other sports. The last 1/18 of a basketball game is the last 2:13. The last 1/18 of a football game is the last 3:20.

If somehow you had a player who could near guarantee your basketball team would not lose a game in regulation that was close after 2:13, he would clearly be valuable, even if he only played for the last two minutes. Same with football. Maybe a pass rusher who almost guaranteed a 3 and out after 3:20. Clearly valuable.
 
That would be a great comparison if it were applicable.
 
BiffTannen said:
That would be a great comparison if it were applicable.
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It isn’t. That’s how special Rivera was. He was a one of a kind athlete who did something most of his peers in his sport couldn’t do and nobody in other sports could.
 
CantStandYa said:
The best part about Mariano getting in with 100% is it eliminates this bullshit argument from the OWGs. Jeets will probably be unanimous next year, and rightly so, unless some jamoke from Boston leaves him off the ballot.
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assume you mean Jeter.
I would be shocked if Jeter is even close to unanimous.
 
PhDeac said:
It isn’t. That’s how special Rivera was. He was a one of a kind athlete who did something most of his peers in his sport couldn’t do and nobody in other sports could.
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Yeah, but primarily due to the structure of the sport, whereas 95% of baseball involves a pitcher and a batter with another guy who keeps the ball from rolling to the backstop.
 
I doubt Jeter will be unanimous. You can vote for between zero and ten players.
 
PhDeac said:
A closer typically enters the game in the 9th inning of a close game, one that’s tied or a team leads by one or two runs.

Let’s extrapolate that to other sports. The last 1/18 of a basketball game is the last 2:13. The last 1/18 of a football game is the last 3:20.

If somehow you had a player who could near guarantee your basketball team would not lose a game in regulation that was close after 2:13, he would clearly be valuable, even if he only played for the last two minutes. Same with football. Maybe a pass rusher who almost guaranteed a 3 and out after 3:20. Clearly valuable.
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A pitcher gets credit for a save as long as he pitches an inning and his team's lead is no more than three runs. That's part of the argument against. How hard is it to hold a three run lead for one inning? Or a two run lead, for that matter.
 
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