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Mariano: 100%

BiffTannen said:
Fine, he's a first ballot HOFer. He's not unanimous though.
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Why not? Each vote is made individually, it isn't an overall percentage given by the group as a collective whole. When it comes time to fill in the ballot, what voter can sit there and say that his career should not get a HOF vote? And, just as important currently with the anonymity gone, what voter wants to defend that position in public when called out on it as the idiot who doesn't think Jeter belongs in the HOF?
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I'm as big a Mariano fan as anyone, but the only reason he was the first unanimous was because the votes are now public and the idiots who could previously hide behind anonymity to not unanimously vote Maddux and similar players would now get publicly roasted. Not that he doesn't deserve to be unanimous, he most certainly does, but being the first is not as big as it is being made out to be. That said, amazing career and clearly the best reliever ever.
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So true! It is hard to believe that in the long ago past and just recently that we did not have numerous unanimous selections. How could Ruth, Gehrig, Ripken, Mays, Aaron, Maddux, Gibson, Berra, Koufax, Mathewson, Bench, Boggs, Brett, Carlton, Clemente, Feller, Griffey Jr, Gwynn, Reggie Jackson, Randy Johnson & Walter Johnsonn, Musial, Palmer, Robinson & Robinson, Ryan, Schmidt, Seaver, Wagner, Ted Williams & Yaz all not be unanimous??? Probably more for this list.
 
Using the logic that because no one had been unanimous that no one should, Jackie Robinson shouldn't have been allowed to play for the Dodgers as no black person had been allowed to play. Women shouldn't be allowed to vote and many other such "traditions" should be upheld.
 
BiffTannen said:
Fine, he's a first ballot HOFer. He's not unanimous though.
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Yankees fan here and Jeter was one of my favorites but not sure if he is an unanimous vote.

.310 ba (#77) - 3465 hits (#6) - 260 hr (#189) - 1311 rbi (#104) - 544 2b (#29) - 358 sb (#103)

most of his great stats are for playing as long and being good for a long time.

hits - #6
at bats - #7
runs - #9
 
Jeter will get in on the first ballot. He will not be unanimous. He may not get 90%. Jeter never won an MVP.

"Black Ink" is a tool that HOF voters often rely on (it's how many times a player led his league in an "important" category). Here is a link to the full description: https://www.baseball-reference.com/about/leader_glossary.shtml#black_ink. The top 5 in accumulating Black Ink numbers are: Babe Ruth (157), Ty Cobb (154), Rogers Hornsby (125), Ted Williams (122) and Stan Musial (116).

The average HOF has accumulated 27 in Black Ink numbers. Jeter is a 10 on the Black Ink scale (250th all-time). To be fair, there are other scales where Jeter does much better on, but he is not among the all-time greats.

Jeter was never the best player in the game at any point. He was never a dominant player. His longevity and the ability to be really good for a long time was incredible. He deserves to be in the HOF and will get in on the first ballot, but there is no chance he will be unanimous.
 
Last thing I'll mention RE: Jeets and then I'll let it go. My thought on him being unanimous wasn't based in a vacuum. The list of first-year guys next year after Jeter is trash, with the likes of Bobby Abreu and Jason Giambi. It's going to be hard for anyone to justify leaving Jeter off their ballot, even if they do a sweep of leftovers like Schilling and the steroid guys.
 
WFU71 said:
You should have just stuck with the different era comment. Mantle faced pitchers standing on a 15" mound, with the benefit of a larger strike zone and who could drill him with a fastball with relative impunity. After he retired the mound was lowered to 10"with a tighter strike zone. MLB also got more serious about doctored balls. Then specialized relievers made things more difficult for batters.

I saw them both in their primes and would take a healthy Mantle over Griffey - others might disagree with me. I'd take Mays over both of them, but he didn't have the injuries the guys we're discussing did.
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Spot on; also saw them both and Griffey, while as natural as a ball player can be, (I mean the guy just glided) was no Mantle. And while it would be a better debate if Mantle was healthier, neither held a candle to Mays, truly the best MBL I've ever seen.
 
I will grant you that no one in MLB history mastered the bloop to RF or making a strike appear to be a ball by acting like the pitch almost hit me like Jeets.

Also be prepared to see the flip to home against the A's in the ALCS a thousand more vomitmous times.
 
silk said:
I'd take Nomar, Tejada, and Rodriquez over Jeter. And thats off the top of my head in the AL. Jeter had little range, nothing close to Vizquel.

Even the Yankees had problems finding the right place to bat him. He was mostly a ground ball hitter so batting 2d he hit into too many double plays. Lacking superior speed he was not a good leadoff.
Anywhere other than NY he would probably bat 8 or 9.

He was a clutch hitter tho. And a fan favorite.
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Are you out of your mind? Rodriquez, maybe. The guy did it all, and with power. Nomar & Tejada better than Jeter?? Off the top of your head???

Either you are just anti NY/Yankee or didn't watch baseball regularly.
 
CantStandYa said:
Last thing I'll mention RE: Jeets and then I'll let it go. My thought on him being unanimous wasn't based in a vacuum. The list of first-year guys next year after Jeter is trash, with the likes of Bobby Abreu and Jason Giambi. It's going to be hard for anyone to justify leaving Jeter off their ballot, even if they do a sweep of leftovers like Schilling and the steroid guys.
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You can vote for up to ten players. You don't have to vote for any if you don't want to.
 
Speaking of Abreu, saw this from Bill James last night:

Take this group of players; Bobby Abreu, Tony Gwynn, Ichiro, Rod Carew, Ryne Sandberg, Trammell & Whitaker, George Sisler, Brooks Robinson, Both Pudges (Fisk and Ivan), Zack Wheat, Aparicio and Fox, Harry Hooper, Lloyd Waner, Ozzie Smith, Red Schoendienst, Pie Traynor, Ron Santo, Keith Hernandez, Don Mattingly, Gary Carter and you can throw in literally 50 more un-named Hall of Famers., don't have space.
Among that group of players, Bobby Abreu ranks First in Runs Scored First in RBI First in On Base Percentage First in Slugging Percentage
 
Abreu also won a gold glove and led the league in OF assists a couple of times. He had a gun. All that said, he is not getting in, at least through the writers part of the voting.
 
deac29 said:
Speaking of Abreu, saw this from Bill James last night:

Take this group of players; Bobby Abreu, Tony Gwynn, Ichiro, Rod Carew, Ryne Sandberg, Trammell & Whitaker, George Sisler, Brooks Robinson, Both Pudges (Fisk and Ivan), Zack Wheat, Aparicio and Fox, Harry Hooper, Lloyd Waner, Ozzie Smith, Red Schoendienst, Pie Traynor, Ron Santo, Keith Hernandez, Don Mattingly, Gary Carter and you can throw in literally 50 more un-named Hall of Famers., don't have space.
Among that group of players, Bobby Abreu ranks First in Runs Scored First in RBI First in On Base Percentage First in Slugging Percentage
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:heart:
 
Pilchard said:
Jeter will get in on the first ballot. He will not be unanimous. He may not get 90%. Jeter never won an MVP.

"Black Ink" is a tool that HOF voters often rely on (it's how many times a player led his league in an "important" category). Here is a link to the full description: https://www.baseball-reference.com/about/leader_glossary.shtml#black_ink. The top 5 in accumulating Black Ink numbers are: Babe Ruth (157), Ty Cobb (154), Rogers Hornsby (125), Ted Williams (122) and Stan Musial (116).

The average HOF has accumulated 27 in Black Ink numbers. Jeter is a 10 on the Black Ink scale (250th all-time). To be fair, there are other scales where Jeter does much better on, but he is not among the all-time greats.

Jeter was never the best player in the game at any point. He was never a dominant player. His longevity and the ability to be really good for a long time was incredible. He deserves to be in the HOF and will get in on the first ballot, but there is no chance he will be unanimous.
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This is all fine and it's good analysis. Jeter is not an "all time great" but he was a phenomenal player and is going to be in the HOF. How can a voter next year, look at their ballot and decide not to vote for him? I do not understand that. Same for all of those other past greats. The process is one of the most stupid things I've ever seen for the baseball HOF.
 
deac29 said:
Speaking of Abreu, saw this from Bill James last night:

Take this group of players; Bobby Abreu, Tony Gwynn, Ichiro, Rod Carew, Ryne Sandberg, Trammell & Whitaker, George Sisler, Brooks Robinson, Both Pudges (Fisk and Ivan), Zack Wheat, Aparicio and Fox, Harry Hooper, Lloyd Waner, Ozzie Smith, Red Schoendienst, Pie Traynor, Ron Santo, Keith Hernandez, Don Mattingly, Gary Carter and you can throw in literally 50 more un-named Hall of Famers., don't have space.
Among that group of players, Bobby Abreu ranks First in Runs Scored First in RBI First in On Base Percentage First in Slugging Percentage
Click to expand...

I wouldn't be surprised if he's in the Top 3/4 in SBs as well.
 
Pilchard said:
Abreu also won a gold glove and led the league in OF assists a couple of times. He had a gun. All that said, he is not getting in, at least through the writers part of the voting.
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Yeah, never higher than 12th in MVP voting while guys who won the MVP twice, Like Dale Murphy, aren't in the Hall.

Was also on the leaked steroid user list.

He can forget it.
 
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