tigerswood
Well-known member
Yeah, a course that's barely 7000 yards has been short for 15+ years. Can't blame it on equipment all of a sudden this year. Lower scores are primarily a result of more talent and the benign conditions.
Saudi World Golf Tour 2022/2023 Thread
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ImTheCaptain
I disagree with you
the obsession with length as the primary feature of difficulty is a problem for the game.
Justin Rose seems like an alright guy, no ?
ImTheCaptain
I disagree with you
no one who plays that slow can be great
cville deac
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Rose? He's not that slow. He's nowhere near Na or DeChambeau territory. Not even old Tiger, Day, Weebus or Spieth territory (all of whom have improved in recent years).
Shorty
Boomer Boy
I don’t get what you mean by that.
ImTheCaptain
I disagree with you
constantly adding length to courses or designing them to be over-long. the pros simply compensate and it kills the average golfer.
You should stop playing from the Championship Tees.
And only 49 courses will host a PGA event this year.
How many of those will you play this year ? It won't be more than one for me. And I won't play it from the tips.
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cville deac
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Not really. Just don't play the tips. For my distance on a par 72 course, I'd play tees that are in the 62-6600 range, which pretty much puts me in the LPGA distance range.
Shorty
Boomer Boy
Exactly. And if distance were the single difficulty factor for the pros, Pebble Beach would never host another Open. Nor would Shinnecock Hills, next year’s open site, or a course like Merion, where Justin Rose won in 2013. There are other factors.
Shorty
Boomer Boy
I actually don’t think the Captain plays golf.
I don't think Ph does either, but goddamn, he knows who's the best at it.
Exactly.
Our course will be undergoing a major re-design next year. There will be 400-500 total yds added to the championship tees to make it harder for the scratch golfers and the rest of the course - tees, fairways, bunkers, greens - will be designed to be more fun and accommodating for the average golfers. The final result should be a course that is better suited all types of golfers.
Another example - the members tees at Augusta National are much shorter than the championship tees. Total yardage is about 1000 yds less. It would be extremely difficult for most folks if this wasn't the case.
Les Grossman
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Shinnecock is over 7,400 yards. And next years US Open site is Winged Foot.
I agree it’s not the only factor, but length is a huge factor in the difficulty of a golf course.
I do believe that the game is less relateable than it used to be due to how far the pros hit the ball now, but I am not sure what, if anything, to do about it. Twenty years ago the pros hit the ball about the same distance as good amateurs - just a lot more consistently, etc. Now they hit it 50 or more yards farther off the tee and hit 2 or 3 clubs less for the same distance. And, by the way, really top amateurs also hit it a lot farther than the more casual level good amateur. How did this happen?
I think it a combination of
- more competition at the top levels,
- earlier focus on golf by players that later become top amateurs and pros,
- much greater emphasis on strength and flexibility training in college programs and by the pros,
- generally more focus on hitting the ball a long way at all levels (like the fascination in baseball with the home run),
- equipment and ball technology - this obviously impacts everyone in the game but the pros have the latest and greatest of everything and can get equipment specifically tailored to them.
The only way to slow it down would be to mandate ball technology to limit distances - it could be done technologically. The question is should it? Nicklaus has been advocating for it for years.
I think it a combination of
- more competition at the top levels,
- earlier focus on golf by players that later become top amateurs and pros,
- much greater emphasis on strength and flexibility training in college programs and by the pros,
- generally more focus on hitting the ball a long way at all levels (like the fascination in baseball with the home run),
- equipment and ball technology - this obviously impacts everyone in the game but the pros have the latest and greatest of everything and can get equipment specifically tailored to them.
The only way to slow it down would be to mandate ball technology to limit distances - it could be done technologically. The question is should it? Nicklaus has been advocating for it for years.
Shorty
Boomer Boy
Shinnecock is a links style course, where drives over 350 yards are not uncommon. Nicklaus was right twenty years ago. The problem is the golf ball.
ImTheCaptain
I disagree with you
i played Harbor Town this year and played from the whites; the champion tees barely add a club or two per hole. i played pebble from the recommended tees for an 11 handicap, which i think was yellow or white. the champion tees add a bit more but not much per hole there either. i don't have a problem with playing the proper tees. but those are older courses where length isn't the biggest defense the course has to offer. i still hit my drives about 270-280 when i'm playing regularly, though at the moment it's not very often.
my point is that golf is more interesting when it's not about needing to hit driver/long iron on the majority of par 4s from the appropriate tees, which is a trend for courses that permit extension and it's lazy. a course doesn't need to be 7k+ to be hard
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Well what would your suggestion be for changes to 100-year old golf courses ?
ImTheCaptain
I disagree with you
I don't think changes need to be made. I think people who think Pebble needs a bunch of overhauls are fucking nuts and if they thought the US Open was uninteresting this year they need to find a different game to watch.
Nerf the tech. I don't understand why that's such an issue.