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2024 Wake Women's Basketball Offseason - Grad transfer SMU PG Tamia Jones

scooter84 said:
I think we have invested significantly in women's basketball over the years. Could we have done more - I'm sure. But we have quite a few programs and resources and focus have to be allocated. There aren't that many women's sports where we have been that successful - the ones where we have there are unique forces at work. We have the tradition behind golf and the competition was limited when we were so successful at field hockey. What else? Tennis, I guess - a country club sport that fits our demographics... VB is another women's sport where we have historically been terrible - I think we are trying there as well, but just haven't figured it out.
More importantly, I think it is divisive and hurtful to automatically assume racism is the reason for the perceived lack of focus on WBB when there are many other reasons that would be just as justifiable as an explanation.
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I don’t think it’s divisive and hurtful to acknowledge that systemic racism exists literally everywhere.
 
awakegirl said:
I don’t think it’s divisive and hurtful to acknowledge that systemic racism exists literally everywhere.
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We're not talking about everywhere - we are talking about why Wake Forest has (at least arguably) historically lacked focus and resources with respect to its WBB program. Pointing out that there is systemic racism doesn't help identify what Wake Forest can do to help the program - Wake Forest is not going to fix systemic racism.
I know you disagree but I don't believe systemic racism has anything to do with our lack of success at WBB. There are obviously plenty of schools that have thriving, successful WBB programs and they operate in the same society. Currie is obviously focused on the issue - otherwise he wouldn't have changed coaches. I think he will figure it out but it might take another coaching change or two... We were slow getting our NIL program up and running at all, so it is no surprise that we are behind for WBB - that doesn't mean we aren't trying or that we won't get there.
 
scooter84 said:
We're not talking about everywhere - we are talking about why Wake Forest has (at least arguably) historically lacked focus and resources with respect to its WBB program. Pointing out that there is systemic racism doesn't help identify what Wake Forest can do to help the program - Wake Forest is not going to fix systemic racism.
I know you disagree but I don't believe systemic racism has anything to do with our lack of success at WBB. There are obviously plenty of schools that have thriving, successful WBB programs and they operate in the same society. Currie is obviously focused on the issue - otherwise he wouldn't have changed coaches. I think he will figure it out but it
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scooter84 said:
We're not talking about everywhere - we are talking about why Wake Forest has (at least arguably) historically lacked focus and resources with respect to its WBB program. Pointing out that there is systemic racism doesn't help identify what Wake Forest can do to help the program - Wake Forest is not going to fix systemic racism.
I know you disagree but I don't believe systemic racism has anything to do with our lack of success at WBB. There are obviously plenty of schools that have thriving, successful WBB programs and they operate in the same society. Currie is obviously focused on the issue - otherwise he wouldn't have changed coaches. I think he will figure it out but it might take another coaching change or two... We were slow getting our NIL program up and running at all, so it is no surprise that we are behind for WBB - that doesn't mean we aren't trying or that we won't get there.
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I agree Currie is focused on these issues. I praised him for it several times. Systemic racism happens at Wake. I think we should be mindful of it here. If WBB was a “country club” sport as you referred to tennis, do you think they’d have zero NIL?
 
SC DEAC said:
LSU loses again tonight... their chemistry sucks this year and they are getting hammered in the second half of the games because Mulkey barely plays her bench and Reese is out of shape.
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Two prima donnas. lols. Re: Wake women's hoops, why fire Hoover if you don't care about investing in the program? Hoping Gebbia can do more with less?
 
Buttermaker said:
Two prima donnas. lols. Re: Wake women's hoops, why fire Hoover if you don't care about investing in the program? Hoping Gebbia can do more with less?
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I actually said I applaud this and Currie is trying but there is historical underinvestment at play. We should be conscious of correcting that with NIL IMO.
 
scooter84 said:
I think we have invested significantly in women's basketball over the years. Could we have done more - I'm sure. But we have quite a few programs and resources and focus have to be allocated. There aren't that many women's sports where we have been that successful - the ones where we have there are unique forces at work. We have the tradition behind golf and the competition was limited when we were so successful at field hockey. What else? Tennis, I guess - a country club sport that fits our demographics... VB is another women's sport where we have historically been terrible - I think we are trying there as well, but just haven't figured it out.
More importantly, I think it is divisive and hurtful to automatically assume racism is the reason for the perceived lack of focus on WBB when there are many other reasons that would be just as justifiable as an explanation.
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We've been pretty good in most women's sports at Wake short of Volleyball and Basketball. Unsurprisingly, these are sports where elite physical tools (size, strength, etc.) probably have the biggest impact of sports we compete in. Women's track and field has had some ups and downs (probably roughly in line with the men's program, paging @wakephan09).

We've been elite in WGolf & Field Hockey, good-great in WTennis, and good-borderline great in WSoccer.
 
awakegirl said:
I agree Currie is focused on these issues. I praised him for it several times. Systemic racism happens at Wake. I think we should be mindful of it here. If WBB was a “country club” sport as you referred to tennis, do you think they’d have zero NIL?
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I think the reality is also that Wake isn't currently, and hasn't been historically, the most inviting place for black and brown students. Folks don't want to hear that, but it's consistently come up for student athletes, general student population, and essentially the USNWR rankings. It's not surprising to me that a sport dominated by an elite group of black and brown women with tons of options, would choose other places than Wake Forest to apply their craft. Obviously the point of NIL and scholarships are the incentivize choosing Wake, so it would be nice if we could leverage that.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
I think the reality is also that Wake isn't currently, and hasn't been historically, the most inviting place for black and brown students. Folks don't want to hear that, but it's consistently come up for student athletes, general student population, and essentially the USNWR rankings. It's not surprising to me that a sport dominated by an elite group of black and brown women with tons of options, would choose other places than Wake Forest to apply their craft. Obviously the point of NIL and scholarships are the incentivize choosing Wake, so it would be nice if we could leverage that.
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That theory doesn't hold up when you look at similarly situated schools:
  • Vanderbilt women's hoop: 27 NCAAT appearances; 6 SEC titles; 1 FInal 4s
  • Duke women's hoop: 25 NCAAT appearances: 7 ACC titles; 2 Final 4s
  • Northwestern women's hoop: 7 NCAAT appearances; 1 Big 10 regular season title (2020); 1 regular season title
Do we even have to mention how great Stanford, Baylor, Notre Dame and USC have been in women's basketball? What makes all those small private colleges, with a rep of elitish student bodies, so much more inviting for black and brown student-athletes?
 
Pilchard said:
That theory doesn't hold up when you look at similarly situated schools:
  • Vanderbilt women's hoop: 27 NCAAT appearances; 6 SEC titles; 1 FInal 4s
  • Duke women's hoop: 25 NCAAT appearances: 7 ACC titles; 2 Final 4s
  • Northwestern women's hoop: 7 NCAAT appearances; 1 Big 10 regular season title (2020); 1 regular season title
Do we even have to mention how great Stanford, Baylor, Notre Dame and USC have been in women's basketball? What makes all those small private colleges, with a rep of elitish student bodies, so much more inviting for black and brown student-athletes?
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Your knowledge of those "similar situations" is what exactly?
 
deacfan123 said:
Not arguing but what format is more watchable? Because they have a break at 10 minutes and call it a new quarter?
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Yes. The flow is much better in the women's game because there are fewer stoppages of play. One TV timeout/quarter every 5 minutes vs. TV timeout/halftime every 4 minutes. Thanks to quarters, there's less chance of a FT parade over the last 6-8 minutes of game. Games are quicker overall.

Deacfreak07 said:
WBB generally has better spacing and movement than MBB.
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This too. More traditional post play and inside out action.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
Your knowledge of those "similar situations" is what exactly?
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Small private schools in Power V conferences.

What makes WF materially different than Vandy, Duke, NW, Baylor, Notre Dame, Stanford when it comes to attracting student-athletes, particularly those that are black and brown? If WF is so much more unattractive to women's basketball players than these other schools, why would a male black or brown basketball prospect find WF more attractice than Vandy, NW, Stanford or Notre Dame, but a female black or brown prospect with a similar background not find WF as attractive?
 
PhDeac said:
Yes. The flow is much better in the women's game because there are fewer stoppages of play. One TV timeout/quarter every 5 minutes vs. TV timeout/halftime every 4 minutes. Thanks to quarters, there's less chance of a FT parade over the last 6-8 minutes of game. Games are quicker overall.


This too. More traditional post play and inside out action.
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To each their own. Men's basketball has a much greater following than women's basketball, and its not close.
 
Pilchard said:
Small private schools in Power V conferences.

What makes WF materially different than Vandy, Duke, NW, Baylor, Notre Dame, Stanford when it comes to attracting student-athletes, particularly those that are black and brown? If WF is so much more unattractive to women's basketball players than these other schools, why would a male black or brown basketball prospect find WF more attractice than Vandy, NW, Stanford or Notre Dame, but a female black or brown prospect with a similar background not find WF as attractive?
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What is your evidence that those schools aren't aren't more attractive than Wake Forest to male students? I don't get the feeling that we are going to win the H2H recruiting battle with any of those schools. Also, many of those schools are about twice the size of Wake.
 
Pilchard said:
To each their own. Men's basketball has a much greater following than women's basketball, and its not close.
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How do the growth trajectories of both sports stack up? My hunch is WBB is significantly steeper than MBB. Also, if you don't feel like sex discrimination factors into current viewing demographics heavily influenced by Boomers and GenX, then I don't know what to tell you.
 
Historically, WF men's basketball has recruited at least on the same level as Vandy, NW, Stanford and Notre Dame. Women's basketball is not even close to those schools. If you can't acknowledge that WF men's basketball generally has recruited higher talent level than WF women's basketball than not sure its worth have a discussion on this topic.
 
Pilchard said:
Historically, WF men's basketball has recruited at least on the same level as Vandy, NW, Stanford and Notre Dame. Women's basketball is not even close to those schools. If you can't acknowledge that WF men's basketball generally has recruited higher talent level than WF women's basketball than not sure its worth have a discussion on this topic.
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Which is largely a function of allocation of resources. I would be curious of our success H2H vs. Vandy, NW, Stanford, and ND.
 
Also for perspective, WF is nearly 70% white. Vandy is about 50%, Northwestern about 40%, Stanford is less than 30%, and duke is about 41%. That's pretty significant, and it's really extreme with one of the smallest populations in D1 sports.

This matters. It's always mattered, and the USNWR ranking change continues to elevate that. Wake Forest is closer to an HWCU than the median school in the country. Lack of diversity hurts the experience for students at Wake Forest, and it's a problem that is difficult to solve since it's tough to recruit a diverse population when you don't have a diverse population for them to assimilate into.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
How do the growth trajectories of both sports stack up? My hunch is WBB is significantly steeper than MBB. Also, if you don't feel like sex discrimination factors into current viewing demographics heavily influenced by Boomers and GenX, then I don't know what to tell you.
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Of course, women's basketball has a higher trajectory because women's basketball it had no following until fairly recently. Maybe women's hoop will someday equal men's hoop in attendance, ratings and overall interest. That would be wonderful. That's just not the case now. Not sure why there is any controversy on that point. Do we need to post attendance numbers for men's and women's hoop for all 363 D1 programs?
 
Pilchard said:
To each their own. Men's basketball has a much greater following than women's basketball, and its not close.
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Neither has that big of a following in the grand scheme of things. Like I said, college basketball isn't a great product. Men's sports generally have more of a following than women's sports overall.

But things are changing. Two weeks ago, Iowa-OSU women was the highest rated college basketball game of the week, and it's not close. More people watched that game on NBC than the #3 and #4 games on FOX combined. It was the 3rd highest rated college basketball game of the year.

Overall, women's games are growing in viewership. Check the link below and women's games are getting solid ratings compared to men's games. VT-FSU women's hoops on Sunday, Jan 14 at 1:00 on ESPN had higher ratings than UVA-Wake the day before at 2:00.

www.sportsmediawatch.com

College basketball TV ratings

College basketball TV ratings for the 2023 season. Will be updated weekly throughout the season, typically on Tuesdays.
www.sportsmediawatch.com www.sportsmediawatch.com
 
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