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2020 Carolina Panthers Thread

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Just to bother Ph.

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PhDeac said:
Panthers decline 5th year option on Vernon Butler.

In case you've forgotten, Vernon Butler was our 2016 first round pick at DT. This will be his last season under his rookie deal. Hard to believe he's been here for 3 seasons.
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Yep, done almost nothing. Tough to go with what should be a "safe" pick of an OL or DL and completely miss on it with Butler. The gift of Gman continues!
 
BiffTannen said:
Obviously, Butler could still wind up being cut if he doesn't have a good camp and we find a lower cost alternative. But, at least he's a veteran and knows the system.
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If he's ever going to do anything with CAR this would be the year. Contract not picked up and playing for his NFL life. Seen that the switch to more 3-4 may help him? Who knows.
 
BiffTannen said:
Why throw two seasons tanking for a prospect who might wind up not being as good as you'd hoped ?

Tua is not as good as Peyton Manning, Andrew Luck, John Elway, or even Cam Newton.
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Yeah, I don't get the school of thought you tank for Tua.
 
Buttermaker said:
Yeah, I don't get the school of thought you tank for Tua.
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Same - word on Tua is that he is a pre-snap read guy. If that first read doesn't workout, he doesn't have the ability to get to the next read - he just runs the ball. That is fine when you are the Alabama QB, playing with the most talented team almost every game, but that won't be the case in the NFL.

Clemson sunshine started the year like that, but towards the end of the season, he started working through progressions.
 
91deac said:
Same - word on Tua is that he is a pre-snap read guy. If that first read doesn't workout, he doesn't have the ability to get to the next read - he just runs the ball. That is fine when you are the Alabama QB, playing with the most talented team almost every game, but that won't be the case in the NFL.

Clemson sunshine started the year like that, but towards the end of the season, he started working through progressions.
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It took Cam like 3 years in the NFL to get past that, pretty sure he turned out okay.
 
If Tua was 6'5, 255 lbs and ran a 4.5 40, I might agree with you - but since he isn't.

Tua is a really good college QB, but IMO he is not a once-in-a-generation, tank-for-Tua type player.
 
91deac said:
If Tua was 6'5, 255 lbs and ran a 4.5 40, I might agree with you - but since he isn't.

Tua is a really good college QB, but IMO he is not a once-in-a-generation, tank-for-Tua type player.
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No, but he's a better prospect than Grier and a soft landing spot in case the worst happens this season.
 
I can't believe we're still having this discussion. Do you even realize how hard it is to earn the overall #1 pick ? You can be terrible and still win 4 games. And what's the likelihood that Cam is going to miss all 16 games so we can go 2-14 ? It's not happening. And, if Cam should happen to blow out his knee in August and miss the whole season, a third string rookie quarterback isn't going to save us from being terrible. However, if Cam misses three games in the middle of the season, for whatever reason, Grier might be able to keep us in playoff contention till Cam comes back. I have no idea why anyone would be opposed to having a competent back quarterback on a rookie deal, especially someone who advocated for bringing in Colin Kaepernick for likely much more money.

If you want to try to tank for Tua, you trade Cam today for picks. You'd still be able to start Will Grier and suck.
 
I'll use your own points:

"And, if Cam should happen to blow out his knee in August and miss the whole season, a third string rookie quarterback isn't going to save us from being terrible."

Exactly. If Cam is truly done for one reason or another, that's when we need to draft a QB and do it with a first round pick. Until then, we don't because whatever QB we draft (in this case Grier) isn't going to be the long term answer and isn't going to save a season.


"However, if Cam misses three games in the middle of the season, for whatever reason, Grier might be able to keep us in playoff contention till Cam comes back."

Any more than Kyle Allen or whoever? Doubtful. If you need a QB to hold down the fort for Cam, pay a veteran.
 
Sucks for Seattle that a third-round pick can't be a long-term answer at QB. Strange they haven't addressed the position in the last seven years
 
If you want to argue that it's easier to find a QB in the 3rd than with one of the top picks, go for it.
 
But he's not likely to be completely done. He's more likely to miss a chunk of a season. He's still in his prime. And Grier is not going to be good at all for a year or two.

The Colts haven't drafted a QB since luck and traded a former first round pick for Brissett when Luck went down because you have to have someone reasonably competent to run your offense. They won four games and got the #6 pick.

Nobody is on board with tanking this team if Cam gets hurt but you. And if he gets hurt, and we get the #1 pick, Hurney will trade down and get more picks, not draft Tua.

And yes, Grier will be better than Kyle Allen and that other guy in the near future, imo. Also better than Vinnie Testaverde or RGIII or whatever old QB is sitting around on the trash heap.

And carrying a veteran backup and paying him is not a good option for this team based on its cap constraints and the money tied up in Cam and Luke.

Now, if for some reason Cam sucks this year (he won't) and you want to talk about moving on from Cam, clean break, let's talk about that. Otherwise, please stop rooting against our greatest asset in favor of a guy who doesn't really look like someone who's going to be able to stand up to the punishment our offensive line likes to give up.
 
PhDeac said:
If you want to argue that it's easier to find a QB in the 3rd than with one of the top picks, go for it.
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What multiple people have argued is that Tua is not a can't-miss once in a lifetime pick and there are lots of high draft pick QBs who don't work out. Probably as many as later round draft picks who wind up as very good starters.
 
"Now, if for some reason Cam sucks this year (he won't) and you want to talk about moving on from Cam, clean break, let's talk about that."

That's what I've been talking about. I'm looking ahead. Either we don't need a QB for several years or we will need in 2020 or 2021. We didn't need one this year. I made this point before the draft and I'm making it now. It's a waste to draft a backup for a franchise QB for multiple reasons.

I'm not rooting against Cam. I'm talking about how to prepare for the worst and best case scenarios. Hurney split the difference as a weird half-measure.
 
Tom Brady was picked in the 6th round.
Joe Montana was picked in the 3rd round.

These are the top 2 GOATs at the position. Plenty of other examples. The Falcons traded Brett Favre. Kurt Warner. Sure, first rounders work out more often, but the NFL does not know what it has at the position until the player hits the field. I don't even think Belichick knew what he had in Brady because he was stuck behind Bledsoe and it took a lacerated kidney to get Tom on the field. If the Packers knew how good Aaron Rodgers was they would have traded Favre for picks - draft picks, not interceptions, which Brett supplied himself.

I would not have drafted Grier with other glaring needs, but we can't really comment on how good or bad he is until he plays a regular season game.
 
I would not have drafted a backup QB with other glaring needs either. That’s the point.
 
PhDeac said:
I would not have drafted a backup QB with other glaring needs either. That’s the point.
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+1

Nothing against Greer but we could have drafted him in the 4th, or simply draft someone next few years like PH has been saying. We effectively burned 3 picks in rounds 2-3 on ONE guy that is going to play minutes. Unacceptable, then again as someone else pointed out Give it away hasn't exactly picked well in rounds 2-3 so maybe it's pointless to draft anyways.
 
I felt good not having G-man picking for us. He would have drafted a LB in the first.
 
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