2020 Democratic Presidential Nominees

[RJKarl]

That's fair, though I think the use of wonky rather than well versed or knowledgeable is odd and probably why we view it so differently. I also disagree about low personality. I think she shows plenty of emotion when she speaks and can control it far better than Sanders.

Knowing a lot about something doesn't mean you can present it in great way. I love music and know a reasonable amount about it, but God knows you don't want me to sing.

A perfect example of this happened one St. Patrick's Day. My friends were playing at the most popular St. Patrick's Day bar in OC. They would pull the car over if I started singing, but on that night they called me to the little stage to sing with them at about 1 AM. I was feeling no pain and not thinking too deeply as I joined them.

Upon finishing the song. I started leaving the stage. They begged me to stay and sing another. I came to my senses and asked them why they wanted that considering they wouldn't allow me to sing in the car. Finally, the drummer fessed up. He said if the audience cheered for me again it would mean would have to keep playing as the crowd was too drunk to drive home at that time. Nice friends.

To me and others, Warren is much like asking me to join the band.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

i feel like a lot of the defenders of warren re: boring/wonky are doing so because she's a woman. c'mon guys, wonks are boring. that's why they're called wonks.

tim duncan is a great basketball player but jesus h christ fundamentals are boring

 

[Gooner]

I find her wonkiness and style boring. Not because she's a woman, but because she is boring to me. I have every right to feel this way.

You have every right to feel this way, I'm not disputing that. But you said she was boring, compared her to Al Gore in that regard, but have not made any actual links to things that Warren has done similar to Gore or why those things make her boring. You can feel however you want, but if you are going to make that specific assertion, I think it's completely fair to ask that you show your work for why you think that she is like Gore.

 

[Shooshmoo]

It's hilarious that actually having policy ideas (that are far from mainstream/fundamental) means you are a Ryan-esque wonk and are boring. All it means is that you are prepared and have ideas. Not looking for a fly by the seat of their pants President here -- I guess it's not boring to just go whichever way the wind is blowing, man?

 

[RJKarl]

You have every right to feel this way, I'm not disputing that. But you said she was boring, compared her to Al Gore in that regard, but have not made any actual links to things that Warren has done similar to Gore or why those things make her boring. You can feel however you want, but if you are going to make that specific assertion, I think it's completely fair to ask that you show your work for why you think that she is like Gore.

Showing my work for my opinion for something this subjective is basically impossible. It's one's personal taste and apparently is shared by many others. Like me, I'd guess it's not about her being a woman. It's how she presents her points.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

people are bored by different things to different degrees. i don't see why everyone gets salty when their thing or person is declared boring by someone else. I think NBA games are super boring but enjoy watching golf. I don't get my rocks off hearing Warren speak. I appreciate her ideas and plans and think she'll do a lot of good, regardless.

 

[Gooner]

Showing my work for my opinion for something this subjective is basically impossible. It's one's personal taste and apparently is shared by many others. Like me, I'd guess it's not about her being a woman. It's how she presents her points.

Yes but comparing two people is not inherently subjective; there has to be some objective things that they both share. There are objective measures such as, "Gore spoke in a boring, technical manner that was a turnoff for a lot of voters that want to be excited about a candidate, and Warren also speaks in a boring technical manner," or, "Gore lacked passion when speaking on big-picture ideas and Warren has that same lack of passion in her speaking." Those are just random examples, but they are not wholly subjective. If you think that Warren is like Gore, what about their styles or substance makes you think that? "How she presents her points" is too vague.

ETA: I fully realize that the "objective" measures still have large elements of subjectivity, so don't come back with that argument.

 

[Gooner]

people are bored by different things to different degrees. i don't see why everyone gets salty when their thing or person is declared boring by someone else. I think NBA games are super boring but enjoy watching golf. I don't get my rocks off hearing Warren speak. I appreciate her ideas and plans and think she'll do a lot of good, regardless.

I 100% agree with you (except for the NBA point, I mean did you see Lillard's shot last night?). Warren doesn't move the needle for a lot of people, but the people who say they don't like Warren but are huge Bernie Bros. should be scrutinized.

 

[cville deac]

I would love a “boring” President who has convictions, takes a stand, and has the ability to articulately back up their proposals.

When you say convictions....

I'd just again like to take a moment and remind folks of the electoral math. In order to get to 270+, we need to hold onto VA, MN and NC and get some combo of FL, NC, PA, MI, WI, IA and AZ. The aforementioned states aren't exactly the most progressive states out there, but it's these 10 states which will determine the next president. The good news is Trump isn't currently polling well in PA or MI. PA and MI can get us to within sight of the promised land but not quite there. I really don't care who the nominee is as long as it's someone who will be competitive in those states, and I don't think that person is Warren, Sanders or Gillibrand. And I really don't know who amongst the others is best situated to beating Trump.

The other thing is all the Dems, outside of maybe Klobuchar (who isn't moving the Dem needle in the slightest), are talking about some big sweeping reforms like M4A, complete GSL forgiveness and the new green deal, but that shite just ain't passing. All I'm looking for out of the next president is a return to an Obama/Clinton kind of foreign and trade policies, sane judicial nominees and making changes to ICE and our southern border. And if we can get some criminal justice reform and an ACA patch, then great. But that's about all you can expect from our next president's 1st term. All this talk about progressive fantasy reforms is just setting the next president up for failure because they're not going to deliver on any of it. This stuff may get Dems more pumped up for the primary, but I think a better theme for the general would be to take the Harding theme of a return to normalcy. And I think such a theme would play better in these 10 states that will decide the general.

 

[Wakeforest22890]

Right you’re a moderate democrat

 

[RJKarl]

Yes but comparing two people is not inherently subjective; there has to be some objective things that they both share. There are objective measures such as, "Gore spoke in a boring, technical manner that was a turnoff for a lot of voters that want to be excited about a candidate, and Warren also speaks in a boring technical manner," or, "Gore lacked passion when speaking on big-picture ideas and Warren has that same lack of passion in her speaking." Those are just random examples, but they are not wholly subjective. If you think that Warren is like Gore, what about their styles or substance makes you think that? "How she presents her points" is too vague.

ETA: I fully realize that the "objective" measures still have large elements of subjectivity, so don't come back with that argument.

Those are implicit in the statement.

 

[DistrictDeacon]

When you say convictions....

I'd just again like to take a moment and remind folks of the electoral math. In order to get to 270+, we need to hold onto VA, MN and NC and get some combo of FL, NC, PA, MI, WI, IA and AZ. The aforementioned states aren't exactly the most progressive states out there, but it's these 10 states which will determine the next president. The good news is Trump isn't currently polling well in PA or MI. PA and MI can get us to within sight of the promised land but not quite there. I really don't care who the nominee is as long as it's someone who will be competitive in those states, and I don't think that person is Warren, Sanders or Gillibrand. And I really don't know who amongst the others is best situated to beating Trump.

The other thing is all the Dems, outside of maybe Klobuchar (who isn't moving the Dem needle in the slightest), are talking about some big sweeping reforms like M4A, complete GSL forgiveness and the new green deal, but that shite just ain't passing. All I'm looking for out of the next president is a return to an Obama/Clinton kind of foreign and trade policies, sane judicial nominees and making changes to ICE and our southern border. And if we can get some criminal justice reform and an ACA patch, then great. But that's about all you can expect from our next president's 1st term. All this talk about progressive fantasy reforms is just setting the next president up for failure because they're not going to deliver on any of it. This stuff may get Dems more pumped up for the primary, but I think a better theme for the general would be to take the Harding theme of a return to normalcy. And I think such a theme would play better in these 10 states that will decide the general.

Any candidate who doesn’t put climate change mitigation in their top 3 priorities won’t get my vote. Business as usual Democrats don’t cut it anymore.

 

[PhDeac]

"Return to normalcy" is going to be a theme no matter what. It's up to the likely progressive candidate to make the case why the post-Reagan conservative era is not the right normal and a progressive new era should be what we prefer.

 

[Gooner]

"A New Normal" would be a fantastically average campaign slogan

 

[RJKarl]

How about Trump for Prison 2021?

 

[Gooner]

How about Trump for Prison 2021?

 

[cville deac]

Right you’re a moderate democrat

Yeah, and I'm also practical. Can you paint me a likely scenario where we take the senate in the next president's 1st term? And when I say the next president, I'm assuming it's a Dem, but we could still blow this thing. You and I would both love to abolish the EC. But until we accomplish that, we still need to count 270, and the sad fact is the Dem nominee will likely have to win the general by at least 4-5 points in order to win the EC. If you take the solid red states, that gives Trump 204. You throw in FL, NC and AZ which lean red, and you're at 259. He won IA by 10 points in 2016. Now I get we can argue that Trump's tariffs are hurting IA, but culturally, IA is a Trump state, and that would get him to 265. And he only lost MN by 1% and NV by 2%. So even if PA and MI are back in Dem hands, it's still not a done deal. Trump altered the EC a bit when he turned OH red. The Pubs already had a bit of a house effect in their direction by the addition of the 2 senators being added to every state for EC purposes. So he's in a unique position where he can lose the northeast and west coast by yuge margins, but if he holds states like FL, GA, TX and NC by 1-5 points, he could possibly still win but lose the popular vote by maybe 6-7 points, which has never happened before. So yeah, let's be practical and find a nominee who can perform the best in these 10 states.

 

[cville deac]

Any candidate who doesn’t put climate change mitigation in their top 3 priorities won’t get my vote. Business as usual Democrats don’t cut it anymore.

I agree and like Inslee, who has made that his primary issue. Are there any Dems running who don't support climate change mitigation? To me, that looks like a given across the board.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

the candidate who figures out how to fix this recycling issue w/ China so we go back to zero-sort recycling gets my vote

 

[cville deac]

"Return to normalcy" is going to be a theme no matter what. It's up to the likely progressive candidate to make the case why the post-Reagan conservative era is not the right normal and a progressive new era should be what we prefer.

If a progressive can win the above enumerated 10 states, then great. But some of those states aren't exactly the 10 most progressive states in the country. And right now, I'm not pretending I know what will win most of those 10 states. All I'm saying is we have to prevail in most of those states.