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2020 Democratic Presidential Primary

The Bernie Bros still won't answer substantive premises about his "promises" which are the basis of his support:

Last night (and somewhat before), Bernie acknowledged that his M4A, free tuition, student loan forgiveness, etc., will cost $40-50 Trillion over the next decade. Our current budget is $4.45T/year. Bernie's plans would effectively double the size of our budget.

In 2018, there was a total of $3.18T paid in federal taxes. Bernie would have to double tax receipts just to keep pace with a $1.3T annual deficit. How can one believe that his self-described "miniscule" stock transaction tax and higher taxes on the rich will reach the total of all taxes taken in by the IRS?

Secondly, even if the pipe dream of Bernie's taxes equal all the taxes sent to the government comes true, we will have to borrow an additional $1.3-2T annually to pay for his largesse. This means money will be tighter (more expensive) for mortgages which will create massive barriers for people to enter the market. It will be more difficult and more expensive for families to start small businesses. Family farms rely on loans to keep our food growing. These loans will be more expensive. Thus, poor and lower middle class families will have to pay more for food and more family farms will go out of business.

What I expect is either a scathing attack on me or ignoring everything above. It would be nice if some of you would deal with this post honestly and specifically. I won't hold my breath.
 
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PhDeac said:
Yeah. But Pete getting called out more for it is more evidence that people hate him for ridiculous reasons. It’s as if people finally start calling out white guys on their BS and they just happen to start with the nice young gay man.
Click to expand...

Link?
 
PhDeac said:
Yeah. But Pete getting called out more for it is more evidence that people hate him for ridiculous reasons. It’s as if people finally start calling out white guys on their BS and they just happen to start with the nice young gay man.
Click to expand...

that is some cynical framing, man

most of the press I’ve seen calls out all of the men for being assholes last night to varying degrees. hell even Biden’s praise is for being a more forceful asshole rather than anything to do with the substance of his performance
 
RJKarl said:
The Bernie Bros still won't answer substantive premises about his "promises" which are the basis of his support:

Last night (and somewhat before), Bernie acknowledged that his M4A, free tuition, student loan forgiveness, etc., will cost $40-50 Trillion over the next decade. Our current budget is $4.45T/year. Bernie's plans would effectively double the size of our budget.

In 2018, there was a total of $3.18T paid in federal taxes. Bernie would have to double tax receipts just to keep pace with a $1.3T annual deficit. How can one believe that his self-described "miniscule" stock transaction tax and higher taxes on the rich will reach the total of all taxes taken in by the IRS?

Secondly, even if the pipe dream of Bernie's taxes equal all the taxes sent to the government comes true, we will have to borrow an additional $1.3-2T annually to pay for his largesse. This means money will be tighter (more expensive) for mortgages which will create massive barriers for people to enter the market. It will be more difficult and more expensive for families to start small businesses. Family farms rely on loans to keep our food growing. These loans will be more expensive. Thus, poor and lower middle class families will have to pay more for food and more family farms will go out of business.

What I expect is either a scathing attack on me or ignoring everything above. It would be nice if some of you would deal with this post honestly and specifically. I won't hold my breath.
Click to expand...

https://berniesanders.com/issues/how-does-bernie-pay-his-major-plans/
 
RJKarl said:
The Bernie Bros still won't answer substantive premises about his "promises" which are the basis of his support:

Last night (and somewhat before), Bernie acknowledged that his M4A, free tuition, student loan forgiveness, etc., will cost $40-50 Trillion over the next decade. Our current budget is $4.45T/year. Bernie's plans would effectively double the size of our budget.

In 2018, there was a total of $3.18T paid in federal taxes. Bernie would have to double tax receipts just to keep pace with a $1.3T annual deficit. How can one believe that his self-described "miniscule" stock transaction tax and higher taxes on the rich will reach the total of all taxes taken in by the IRS?

Secondly, even if the pipe dream of Bernie's taxes equal all the taxes sent to the government comes true, we will have to borrow an additional $1.3-2T annually to pay for his largesse. This means money will be tighter (more expensive) for mortgages which will create massive barriers for people to enter the market. It will be more difficult and more expensive for families to start small businesses. Family farms rely on loans to keep our food growing. These loans will be more expensive. Thus, poor and lower middle class families will have to pay more for food and more family farms will go out of business.

What I expect is either a scathing attack on me or ignoring everything above. It would be nice if some of you would deal with this post honestly and specifically. I won't hold my breath.
Click to expand...

are we still gonna spend as much on the military?
 
PhDeac said:
Yeah. But Pete getting called out more for it is more evidence that people hate him for ridiculous reasons. It’s as if people finally start calling out white guys on their BS and they just happen to start with the nice young gay man.
Click to expand...

I only watched the first 45 minutes, but Pete was actually probably the most frequent interrupter

he was also probably the least effective interrupter as several candidates continued talking over his interruptions more than other interrupters
 
We already answered RJs question, we are eliminating the country of all boomers, seizing their assets and using those to fund Bernies proposals. This proposal has been tested and all demographics outside of boomers agree with 10% self aware boomers also agreeing or are looking to be spared.
 
There would be enough bills in that plan that it would take a decade to pass them if believable.

Here are a couple of quick responses:

"Eliminating health tax expenditures, which would no longer be needed under Medicare for All.
(Revenue raised: About $3 trillion over 10 years.)"

That isn't realistic. There are millions of people and families who make under $29,000/year and will be exempt from paying anything for their coverage (as it should be). This doesn't mean they won't have to be covered and paid for by the government (I think the number should be higher than $29,000). Thus, tax expenditures would have to be spent to cover them.

Many of the other tax increases are very unlikely to be passed. Given the depth and breadth of the tax increases, it will take years to get this passed (if it ever is).

A few pages ago, I also asked what about future student debt? Or do only people who currently have debt get the giveaway?
 
BarcaDeac said:
are we still gonna spend as much on the military?
Click to expand...

Even if we cut the military by 50%, it would only save about $3-4T over a ten year period. Military spending is definitely out of control, but before we make the needed draconian cuts, there needs to be plans for all the civilians who will lose high paying jobs. People have jobs to make everything from bullets to toilet paper and to deliver or sell the products.

There will be towns that will basically cease to exist due to such cuts. There must be detailed plans for retraining and replacing those jobs.
 
I want to know what RJ's definition of "scathing" is

ETA: Please quote his response so I can see it
 
I propose we invoke democracy and vote on whether or not rj should continue to participate in this thread
 
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