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2020 Democratic Presidential Primary

Stop running shit candidates hand picked by the proverbial smoke filled backroom and maybe the Democrats wouldn't have to browbeat the chunks of the electorate that dislikes both parties into hopefully voting for them.

It was once pointed out by a famous former Democratic politician, "If you give the voters a choice between a Republican and a Democrat running like a Republican, the voters are going to choose the Republican every time."

So. Stop. Fucking. Doing. That.
 
shogun6066 said:
Stop running shit candidates hand picked by the proverbial smoke filled backroom and maybe the Democrats wouldn't have to browbeat the chunks of the electorate that dislikes both parties into hopefully voting for them.

It was once pointed out by a famous former Democratic politician, "If you give the voters a choice between a Republican and a Democrat running like a Republican, the voters are going to choose the Republican every time."

So. Stop. Fucking. Doing. That.
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Biden isn’t doing that. Most progressive platform we’ve ever seen for a Dem nominee.
 
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And you think he wrote that? Or that they'll actually wholeheartedly attempt to implement even half of it?
Nope. At best, it's more of the same old incrementalism the Democrats have pushed for the past half century or more.
 
My initial response to the above tweet appears to be slightly different. It says they could not corroborate her allegation and there was no pattern of allegations found. That was my pause moment. It's almost as if acknowledging he probably did it but at least it was only once. As others have implied what a terrible bar to set.
 
Newsflash for those that seemingly don't remember, things sucked pretty hard back before Trump too. And eyes wide open, that's what we go back to by voting Biden in.
Trump's no different than the Republican Party before him... he's just louder and encouraged them to finally drop the last pretences of civility. They've ALWAYS been the "party of Trump."
Vote Trump out, they're still gonna be there. If he wins, same deal.
 
PhDeac said:
Who is we and what is this competition that has been lost?
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you sound just like a kava/magadonk, man

you're on "my team," but you're shirking even the lowest fucking bar. you don't have to accept the allegations or the moral decision that comes with that, but you also don't have to defend it with some bullshit

I'm convinced that Biden is worth electing for the judges alone, but that's about it for me

and if/once we've elected biden, then we - liberals, progressives, anybody that votes for Biden - must reckon with the consequences of their actions

especially if we're going to continue to hypocritically claim to give a fuck about women and believe women
 
shogun6066 said:
Stop running shit candidates hand picked by the proverbial smoke filled backroom and maybe the Democrats wouldn't have to browbeat the chunks of the electorate that dislikes both parties into hopefully voting for them.

It was once pointed out by a famous former Democratic politician, "If you give the voters a choice between a Republican and a Democrat running like a Republican, the voters are going to choose the Republican every time."

So. Stop. Fucking. Doing. That.
Click to expand...

Smoke-filled rooms? why didn't Bernie, with his millions and army of supporters, sell anyone? Why can't Bernie attract people of color? Why are women supporting Biden over Bernie?
 
deaconson said:
My initial response to the above tweet appears to be slightly different. It says they could not corroborate her allegation and there was no pattern of allegations found. That was my pause moment. It's almost as if acknowledging he probably did it but at least it was only once. As others have implied what a terrible bar to set.
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This is where I'm at, too. Well put, deaconson.

It's not defensible, but we're also in a position where tens of millions of lives, not to mention any hope of enacting a progressive agenda, are at stake due to the conservative colonization of lower and higher courts. It's a horrible calculus and one that liberals will reckon with for a long time. The residue from Clinton's improprieties arguably brought us Trump. I really worry what the implications of this move will be for the Democratic party moving forward.
 
shogun6066 said:
Newsflash for those that seemingly don't remember, things sucked pretty hard back before Trump too. And eyes wide open, that's what we go back to by voting Biden in.
Trump's no different than the Republican Party before him... he's just louder and encouraged them to finally drop the last pretences of civility. They've ALWAYS been the "party of Trump."
Vote Trump out, they're still gonna be there. If he wins, same deal.
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It's silly to try to equate Obama to Trump. You did saying "things sucked pretty hard before Trump". You don't know much about history or progress or the reality of Mitch McConnell running the Senate.
 
Strickland33 said:
I'm convinced that Biden is worth electing for the judges alone, but that's about it for me

and if/once we've elected biden, then we - liberals, progressives, anybody that votes for Biden - must reckon with the consequences of their actions

especially if we're going to continue to hypocritically claim to give a fuck about women and believe women
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All of this.
All of it.
 
RJKarl said:
Smoke-filled rooms? why didn't Bernie, with his millions and army of supporters, sell anyone? Why can't Bernie attract people of color? Why are women supporting Biden over Bernie?
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Bernie attracted plenty of "people of color. A majority of Latinos. Dominated among younger African Americans. Did very well among 30 and under Women. He didn't get swamped until middle-aged and older White and African American voters in the South stampeded to Biden after South Carolina and Rep. Clyburn's endorsement.
Not to mention, Obama's "encouragement phone calls" to Klobechar and Buttigieg got them to, at the very least, endorse Biden. Phone calls of which the news broke this week, mind you.
But you know all this already.
 
Strickland33 said:
you sound just like a kava/magadonk, man

you're on "my team," but you're shirking even the lowest fucking bar. you don't have to accept the allegations or the moral decision that comes with that, but you also don't have to defend it with some bullshit

I'm convinced that Biden is worth electing for the judges alone, but that's about it for me

and if/once we've elected biden, then we - liberals, progressives, anybody that votes for Biden - must reckon with the consequences of their actions

especially if we're going to continue to hypocritically claim to give a fuck about women and believe women
Click to expand...

How did my innocuous, factual post about cultural norms of contact get you to this point?

You say that cultural norms exist and we’re broadly unquestioned while also saying those norms made some people very uncomfortable as well.

That’s how social change works.
 
Goddamn RJ, you're fucking obtuse.
I wasn't equating "Obama to Trump." As for "McConnell and the Senate," that was covered in what I was saying about the Republicans.

I refuse to believe you're really as thick headed as you seemingly like to portray yourself as.
You just can't be. SMH
 
You're right Biden creating and jamming the Violence Against Women Ac through shows he hates women. His putting a law denying abusers of the right to buy guns doesn't protect any women. His support of the Equal Rights Amendment doesn't count either. His long-time support of pay equality doesn't count either.

He got criticized for pushing Obama into support marriage equality. He also voted for including gay bashing as a hate crime.

But fuck, he's Trump-lite to many here. The history doesn't matter.
 
shogun6066 said:
Goddamn RJ, you're fucking obtuse.
I wasn't equating "Obama to Trump." As for "McConnell and the Senate," that was covered in what I was saying about the Republicans.

I refuse to believe you're really as thick headed as you seemingly like to portray yourself as.
You just can't be. SMH
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I haven't gotten personal with you. I haven't called you names or impugned your intelligence, but you can't help yourself.
 
PhDeac said:
How did my innocuous, factual post about cultural norms of contact get you to this point?

You say that cultural norms exist and we’re broadly unquestioned while also saying those norms made some people very uncomfortable as well.

That’s how social change works.
Click to expand...

We decided during the advent of #metoo for the last three years that these types of displays were unacceptable and would not be tolerated. Biden knows what his reputation is. He knows what he's done. And he ran anyway. That, in my mind, takes it away from being innocuous or chalked up to cultural norms.

I grew up in a Jewish household in the South and most of relatives are immigrants and children of immigrants living in the Northeast, exactly the types of folks RJ is using to defend this behavior above. I never felt sexually harassed by Jews in my community. Not once. These women felt sexually harassed by Joe Biden, some before the culture of sexual harassment was even taken seriously by the press (not to mention the law). It's not my place.

I don't care how you justify this to yourself, I guess, but I find it a bit hard to process morally and ethically. I'm going to vote for a man that I know abused his power and sexually assaulted one of his employees and sexually harassed countless women over his political career. I'm going to do that after I claimed to believe women and be an advocate for women in institutional settings where my perspective is privileged over women's. I'm voting for Joe Biden for raw political gain because I can't conceive of a world that is made in the image of an ideological rival. It feels gross. That's just a lot to process, man. At least for me.
 
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