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2020 Presidential Election: Biden v. Trump

 
he doesn't want to do anything, don't make him do anything

he's just the Not Trump candidate
 
You want an "Overton window", just guess how far Democrats will capitulate to fascists to defeat Trump in November. It wouldnt surprise me in the slightest if Dems nominated Mitt Romney in 2024. I'd rather the whole country just burn down and we start over, than continue on with this bullshit. If anyone thinks that the answer to police kneeling on the fucking necks of civilians is more sensitivity classes, then they're a fucking moron and shouldn't be allowed to handle sharp objects, much less vote. I guess more cities will just have to liberate themselves, rather than ever expecting any type of support from the corrupt cowards in the federal government.
 
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trump will say this firing up his base

 
does nobody put punctuation inside quotations any more

the British win again
 
This is just a culture war for liberals, and they won't dare make any type of ideological stand that would risk them losing it. Sitting at home with their thumbs up their asses cheering on the confederate statues going down, but scared to death of any type of structural change in this country that might actually cost *them* something.
 
TownieDeac said:
he doesn't want to do anything, don't make him do anything

he's just the Not Trump candidate
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Certainly some truth to both statements as he's a political lifer and largely status quo guy. I do read the crime bill thing a little differently than some though. I think he helped push through a terrible bill ( in hindsight) but that was part of the time back then and the fear mongering (dangerous inner cities, crack epidemic -opiods are "heartland" so it's a health crisis etc). I guess I'm holding on to the possibility, hopefully?, that he was a product of the time then and remains so now. By that I mean he will fight for reform/change that the people around him want to see. Im really hoping he surrounds himself by good people.
 
i, for one, would be surprised if the dems nominate mitt romney in 2024
 
I think it's pretty okay for Biden to not directly support "defund the police."

First, it's deeply unpopular. As a general rule, it's not a great idea for a national candidate come out in support of something a big majority of voters do not want. I'm sensitive to the argument that a piece of policy could be unpopular but correct (we should do a thread of unpopular things that we think are the right thing to do, I have a few in mind), and also that a good leader can craft a message that can turn public opinion. But "defund the police" is a slogan, not a policy, and is one that is perfectly suited (as opposed to, say, healthcare) to drive change tailored to a local constituency.

I think there are real and fair questions to ask for those calling for abolition. Why do people in poor communities, majority minority communities, and high crime communities want *more* cops, not fewer, when polled? How do you respond to the data that suggest that more police results in less crime? What is the plan to replace all the services currently provided by the police, and if those services are better provided by other (non police) professionals (and they almost certainly are), couldn't we pursue and implement those policies directly, separately from abolition, at which point you'd have a much easier sell?

There isn't going to be one simple solution that works for everyone. And abolition/defunding in its various iterations would be a huge change! To riff off of the Sagan standard, extraordinary change requires extraordinary evidence. But with policing, I think we can get there. What Minneapolis is attempting to do is fantastic. And if it works, and we can show that cities and towns of varying sizes and demographics can successfully improve well-being and decrease harm with a huge reduction in what we currently consider policing, then I believe the national dialogue will start to change. But I don't think Joe Biden telling some reporter that he does or does not support "defunding the police" really helps or hurts that cause.
 
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Good post. Some i agree with. Not saying it doesn’t exist, but would like to see any data showing more police equals less crime.
 
MHBDemon said:
Good post. Some i agree with. Not saying it doesn’t exist, but would like to see any data showing more police equals less crime.
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Unfortunately there is a ton of correlation between influx of police and funding via broken windows policies and crime decreases (that started well before the policies, but criminologists can’t be concerned with causality). Crime rates have just been going down for awhile now. This is the safest time maybe ever for the modal American.
 
That said, there are a bunch of things he could and should come out for that I think could get big support. They won't be popular on these here internets because they will be called half measures. But things like getting rid of police unions (liberals and libertarians unite!) demilitarization, use of force restrictions, investment in non police interventions (911 alternative for mental health issues), etc.
 
tiltdeac said:
That said, there are a bunch of things he could and should come out for that I think could get big support. They won't be popular on these here internets because they will be called half measures. But things like getting rid of police unions (liberals and libertarians unite!) demilitarization, use of force restrictions, investment in non police interventions (911 alternative for mental health issues), etc.
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He had some decent reformist measures in his platform already.
 
MHBDemon said:
Good post. Some i agree with. Not saying it doesn’t exist, but would like to see any data showing more police equals less crime.
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To be fair, there is certainly not definitive data one way or the other. Too much confounding to be sure. But there are some examples of clever designs in an attempt to derive causation. Here's one. http://www.princeton.edu/~smello/papers/cops.pdf
 
Strickland33 said:
Unfortunately there is a ton of correlation between influx of police and funding via broken windows policies and crime decreases (that started well before the policies, but criminologists can’t be concerned with causality). Crime rates have just been going down for awhile now. This is the safest time maybe ever for the modal American.
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Banning and removing lead paint from buildings had a greater effect on the crime rate than any of the racist and draconian policing tactics
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Banning and removing lead paint from buildings had a greater effect on the crime rate than any of the racist and draconian policing tactics
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TITCR

also cohort effects. older people in general are less likely to commit crimes, so crime rates also tend to fluctuate with age distributions of populations
 
Strickland33 said:
TITCR

also cohort effects. older people in general are less likely to commit crimes, so crime rates also tend to fluctuate with age distributions of populations
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Excellent point.
 
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