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2023-24 Wake Forest Basketball Season - 21-14 (11-9) - KP#29 / NET#43

Minideac said:
Regarding the Joel, I do get angry when people leave their drinks on top of the memorial pillars.
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This is what I’m getting at, forced proximity doesn’t encourage reverence, actually the reverse. It feels disrespectful that the memorial to such great sacrifice actually functions as a sidewalk to something totally unrelated to the memorial. The memorial shouldn’t be an entryway, it should be its own featured destination in a more solemn and attractive location.
 
Deacsfan27 said:
We did have a noticeable dropoff when Boopie was out last night (that I think wound up evening up a bit towards the end). It was probably because Boopie was playing so well, but I think I like Cam in an off ball role much more than primary ballhandler. I assume he will dropoff from his 46% from 3, but if he's a 40% shooter then they can't sag off. When Boopie is out, I like Hunter handling for the most part with a bit of rotation b/t Parker and Cam. I think the staff likes Hunter off the ball too based on how they use him when Boopie is out.
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Boopie went out at the 7:15 mark and after the free throws we were up 1. Without him on the floor we built a 10 point lead, he came back right after Harris's first 3 cut it to 7. Sallis's backdoor dunk was huge and was due to him taking the baseline corner spot off the ball. Hildreth was 2 for 2 during that stretch I think.

Then Boopie came back in and he took over the game for the final offensive possessions, with 3 defenders collapsing on him for the Carr game-winner. He also denied the final inbounds that led to Cam's steal to ice it.

I don't mean to downplay anyone's importance, more to say the strength of this team isn't just how good our top 3 guards are, it's how versatile they are. The mix Forbes has going right now is such a problem defensively for our opponent. If you just peg Sallis as point whenever Boopie is out it simplifies defending us. Similar to Cam getting identified in the back half of last year because he didn't have a reliable jumper - he started getting stuck with a bigger player who played off him and could ignore his fakes. All 3 of those guys can shoot it, they all have the handle to run point confidently, they can all drive and finish inside. Basically no team (in the ACC at least) has 3 defenders ready to handle that interchangeably, and mixing up roles makes it even harder. I think you'll see us exploit that advantage more and more as the year goes on. Another side effect is we can give someone a breather from having to bring the ball up every time down - not just once or twice but consistently. Considering how effective our full court pressure has been and that we only play 4 guards in the rotation that's pretty helpful.
 
I 100% agree with you on pretty much everything. I do think Boopie kept us in the game for a long stretch there. Not sure on the +/- overall when he was on the floor vs. off (I'll check into it).
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I 100% agree with you on pretty much everything. I do think Boopie kept us in the game for a long stretch there. Not sure on the +/- overall when he was on the floor vs. off (I'll check into it).
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Totally agree, and he was ridiculous for some early stretches. I don't think he quite has a Reid +/- but I think it was extremely high prior to that late stretch.
 
Boopie had a high +/- until he went out with 7:05 left. Then they built the lead without him and made their comeback after he came back in.

I still think Forbes didn't need to take him out with 4 fouls that late. Leave him in and he might play 7 minutes. Take him out and he definitely won't. It worked out, but it's a questionable practice at best.
 
DCDeac said:
Totally agree, and he was ridiculous for some early stretches. I don't think he quite has a Reid +/- but I think it was extremely high prior to that late stretch.
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According to Grant Boopie scored 4 straight baskets early in 2nd half that brought us from being down 7 to getting up in the game, so that stretch clearly he was +.
 
I can't find the raw +/-, but from Torvik, Boopie was +16 for Box Plus/Minus*, and the next closest on our team was Zach Keller at +6.9

*Box Plus/Minus, Version 2.0 (BPM) is a basketball box score-based metric that estimates a basketball player’s contribution to the team when that player is on the court. It is based only on the information in the traditional basketball box score--no play-by-play data or non-traditional box score data (like dunks or deflections) are included.

BPM uses a player’s box score information, position, and the team’s overall performance to estimate the player’s contribution in points above league average per 100 possessions played. BPM does not take into account playing time -- it is purely a rate stat! Playing time is included in Value Over Replacement Player (VORP) which is discussed below.

League average is defined as 0.0, meaning 0 points above average or below average. Because above-average players play more minutes, there are far more below-average players than above-average players in the league at any time. A value of +5.0 means the team is 5 points per 100 possessions better with the player on the floor than with average production from another player. (In the 2018-19 season, teams averaged around 100 possessions per 48 minute game.)
 
Deacsfan27 said:
I can't find the raw +/-, but from Torvik, Boopie was +16 for Box Plus/Minus*, and the next closest on our team was Zach Keller at +6.9

*Box Plus/Minus, Version 2.0 (BPM) is a basketball box score-based metric that estimates a basketball player’s contribution to the team when that player is on the court. It is based only on the information in the traditional basketball box score--no play-by-play data or non-traditional box score data (like dunks or deflections) are included.

BPM uses a player’s box score information, position, and the team’s overall performance to estimate the player’s contribution in points above league average per 100 possessions played. BPM does not take into account playing time -- it is purely a rate stat! Playing time is included in Value Over Replacement Player (VORP) which is discussed below.

League average is defined as 0.0, meaning 0 points above average or below average. Because above-average players play more minutes, there are far more below-average players than above-average players in the league at any time. A value of +5.0 means the team is 5 points per 100 possessions better with the player on the floor than with average production from another player. (In the 2018-19 season, teams averaged around 100 possessions per 48 minute game.)
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Raw:
Reid +11
Carr +9
Boopie +8
Sallis +5
Cam +4
PF +1
Keller -3
MMM -5
 
Early on when BC was about to build a big lead, Boopie kept WF in the game. He's good and he's improving.

The thing about this team is that outside of Carr and Hildreth, no one on this team really played meaningful basketball last year. Sallis was 7th man on Gonzaga; Boopie played 4 games last year; none after November 23rd; Reid only played garbage minutes at Gonzaga; PFred was in HS; Keller was an non-factor; Marion was in Denmark. The point is that, if WF stays healthy, the Deacs are only going to get better as this team is only scratching the surface of their talent and ability to play together.

FWIW, to the extent that there was any doubt going into this year, Forbes is the transfer portal king. This is three years in a row that Forbes has absolutely killed it in the TP. The stooges that attempt to rate transfer portal additions should just wait to see who WF lands in the portal and rank them all at the top of the list of TP adds.
 
Pilchard said:
Early on when BC was about to build a big lead, Boopie kept WF in the game. He's good and he's improving.

The thing about this team is that outside of Carr and Hildreth, no one on this team really played meaningful basketball last year. Sallis was 7th man on Gonzaga; Boopie played 4 games last year; none after November 23rd; Reid only played garbage minutes at Gonzaga; PFred was in HS; Keller was an non-factor; Marion was in Denmark. The point is that, if WF stays healthy, the Deacs are only going to get better as this team is only scratching the surface of their talent and ability to play together.

FWIW, to the extent that there was any doubt going into this year, Forbes is the transfer portal king. This is three years in a row that Forbes has absolutely killed it in the TP. The stooges that attempt to rate transfer portal additions should just wait to see who WF lands in the portal and rank them all at the top of the list of TP adds.
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Parker added two threes around that same time that kept the game close.
 
PhDeac said:
Boopie had a high +/- until he went out with 7:05 left. Then they built the lead without him and made their comeback after he came back in.

I still think Forbes didn't need to take him out with 4 fouls that late. Leave him in and he might play 7 minutes. Take him out and he definitely won't. It worked out, but it's a questionable practice at best.
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Not sure I agree with it being questionable practice, but it’s a judgement call for sure.

Forbes is already VERY aggressive with leaving guys in when they are in foul trouble. 2-foul participation is #21 overall this year and more than double the D1 average. If he felt like Boopie should be on the bench at that point, I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.
 
Contrast that with Manning who always pulled guys with 2 first half fouls and never let them back in until after halftime, which was just dumb.
 
DeacsATS said:
Contrast that with Manning who always pulled guys with 2 first half fouls and never let them back in until after halftime, which was just dumb.
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Gebbia does this with a much less talented women's team and directly costs them winnable games. She does more with less but leaves herself with less to work with worrying about fouls too much.
 
redwing42 said:
I would guess that Forbes was less confident in the officiating last night than Boopie's ability to play with foul trouble, so it was a situational thing, rather than a general practice.
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Good point.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Walking out of the Joel the other day after the VT win and my daughter asked me if the memorial was a cemetery. Really wish we could respectfully separate our basketball facility from the town war memorial. I have to think the families of those soldiers would enjoy a more proper place to honor them.

Really don’t know what they were thinking with that setup.
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It has been for the last 15 years it seems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
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