ACC Redrawing Divisions (Reporter tweets about internal e-mails)

[Deacfreak07]

The worst thing to do would be to organize around the current state of the programs.

I would make the argument that expecting Clemson and FSU to continue to be great is a lot more than just their current success. They have resource advantages to continue their success.

 

[vadimivich]

Georgia Tech will always be in an opposite division to at least one of the Florida schools ... the rest of the ACC teams want regular games in at least one of the two best recruiting states the ACC has available (Georgia and Florida). If you have UM, FSU and GT all in the same division you'd see a bunch of pissed off head coaches from the rest of the conference.

 

[york1313]

Can someone explain how in soccer the bottom teams in a certain league get demoted while the top teams in a bottom league get promoted to the upper league. Sort of outside the box, but that would be interesting here.

 

[bojanglefunk]

Can someone explain how in soccer the bottom teams in a certain league get demoted while the top teams in a bottom league get promoted to the upper league. Sort of outside the box, but that would be interesting here.

You just explained it.

 

[PhDeac]

Wish you didn't need divisions to have a conf championship game. Everyone in the conference could play each other a lot more frequently, then just have the two best teams face off against each other in the CG.

Probably not good for Wake, but would make it feel like a more legitimate conference -- especially when unlike basically every other league there's no real way to do it geographically

I'd rather see divisions that are more traditional. If we don't get that, I'd rather see your plan. I know the reason behind the divisions is to better standardize schedule strength but this seems more like one conference.

 

[TexasDeac71]

Can someone explain how in soccer the bottom teams in a certain league get demoted while the top teams in a bottom league get promoted to the upper league. Sort of outside the box, but that would be interesting here.

It's called relegation and promotion and has been the norm in professional soccer all over the world (OK, USA excepted!) for many years. Would never work here in any sport due to our litigious society, among other reasons. Not sure how it could possibly work in college sports....geez, we could be a Div III in a few years if things went south....

 

[EatLeadCommie]

The worst thing to do would be to organize around the current state of the programs.

Exactly. It would be downright idiotic, in fact. Do it based on geography, if such a thing is possible, even though it isn't...

SYR
LOU
BC
PITT
UVA
VT

Clearly in the north

WFU
DUKE
NCSU
UNC
UM
FSU
CLEM
GT

Clearly in the south

One team is gonna have to eat a big dick in this arrangement, and chances are pretty decent that it will be us. It would be funny if it was Miami, considering that they bolted the Big East to have, in part, a better geographical setup. It really should not be Miami, and we're one of the Big 4. I vote for GT.

Pickup UConn or somebody and the discussion is irrelevant. Throw them in the north and we're set.

 

[MBDeac08]

Exactly. It would be downright idiotic, in fact. Do it based on geography, if such a thing is possible, even though it isn't...

SYR
LOU
BC
PITT
UVA
VT

Clearly in the north

WFU
DUKE
NCSU
UNC
UM
FSU
CLEM
GT

Clearly in the south

One team is gonna have to eat a big dick in this arrangement, and chances are pretty decent that it will be us. It would be funny if it was Miami, considering that they bolted the Big East to have, in part, a better geographical setup. It really should not be Miami, and we're one of the Big 4. I vote for GT.

Pickup UConn or somebody and the discussion is irrelevant. Throw them in the north and we're set.

It would suck to travel that much and not play the other NC teams regularly. However, in football it wouldn't be so bad to be in that north division.

 

[Palmettodeac]

The worst thing to do would be to organize around the current state of the programs.

But they did just that when Miami joined the ACC because they wanted the two Florida programs in the championship game. I argued that it was stupid then.

 

[PhDeac]

But they did just that when Miami joined the ACC because they wanted the two Florida programs in the championship game. I argued that it was stupid then.

Oh it was definitely stupid then. And I don't think there's much evidence against that.

 

[Palmettodeac]

I agree with you. Just expecting that they will be stupid again if they are considering realignment.

 

[vadimivich]

People are still throwing around the concept of "The Big 4"? I thought that died the horrible fiery death it deserved, and everyone recognized that structuring the ACC around 4 middling football programs (2 of which are tiny private schools) in a state that cares much more about basketball was a terrible, terrible, terrible (did I mention TERRIBLE) idea.

 

[Deacon2002]

To me it's not so much about the Big 4 it's that we have an opportunity to put the 6 original ACC schools together plus GT (the next oldest member) in one division and the 7 newer schools in another division which keeps a lot of traditional rivalries in place (not just big 4 but also Clemson-GT, FSU-Miami, Pitt-Syracuse) while also having pretty good competitive balance:

Atlantic:
Clemson
Duke
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Virginia
Wake Forest

Coastal:
Boston College
Florida State
Louisville
Miami
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Virginia Tech

The only real drawback I see is the travel for the Florida schools. I think it would really keep up (and maybe spike fan interest)....

 

[vadimivich]

To me it's not so much about the Big 4 it's that we have an opportunity to put the 6 original ACC schools together plus GT (the next oldest member) in one division and the 7 newer schools in another division which keeps a lot of traditional rivalries in place (not just big 4 but also Clemson-GT, FSU-Miami, Pitt-Syracuse) while also having pretty good competitive balance:

Atlantic:
Clemson
Duke
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Virginia
Wake Forest

Coastal:
Boston College
Florida State
Louisville
Miami
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Virginia Tech

The only real drawback I see is the travel for the Florida schools. I think it would really keep up (and maybe spike fan interest)....

That's probably about as balanced as you can make it ... other than the fact that travel for the Coastal is absolutely brutal, and almost non-existent for the Atlantic (and the Atlantic teams have no guaranteed games in Florida over a 4 year period, which is another big reason for FSU and Miami to be split).

 

[FreeStateDeac]

People are still throwing around the concept of "The Big 4"? I thought that died the horrible fiery death it deserved, and everyone recognized that structuring the ACC around 4 middling football programs (2 of which are tiny private schools) in a state that cares much more about basketball was a terrible, terrible, terrible (did I mention TERRIBLE) idea.

The "Big 4" is from a conference that existed in a galaxy far, far away in a time long, long ago.

 

[ChrisL68]

Exactly. It would be downright idiotic, in fact. Do it based on geography, if such a thing is possible, even though it isn't...

SYR
LOU
BC
PITT
UVA
VT

Clearly in the north

WFU
DUKE
NCSU
UNC
UM
FSU
CLEM
GT

Clearly in the south

One team is gonna have to eat a big dick in this arrangement, and chances are pretty decent that it will be us. It would be funny if it was Miami, considering that they bolted the Big East to have, in part, a better geographical setup. It really should not be Miami, and we're one of the Big 4. I vote for GT.

Pickup UConn or somebody and the discussion is irrelevant. Throw them in the north and we're set.

They could pull out Virginia and put them in the south. Move Wake and State to the north and have the same cross division rivals. They probably want to keep Wake and Duke split also.

In the end I don't seem them doing it geographically because the southern teams are typically going to be stronger at football.

 

[sailordeac]

Throw a little travel money (from the increased TV revenues) at Miami, and then we'll have ACC Traditional and ACC Big East divisions. This will put a lot more fans in the seats.

 

[timthedeac]

To me it's not so much about the Big 4 it's that we have an opportunity to put the 6 original ACC schools together plus GT (the next oldest member) in one division and the 7 newer schools in another division which keeps a lot of traditional rivalries in place (not just big 4 but also Clemson-GT, FSU-Miami, Pitt-Syracuse) while also having pretty good competitive balance:

Atlantic:
Clemson
Duke
Georgia Tech
North Carolina
North Carolina State
Virginia
Wake Forest

Coastal:
Boston College
Florida State
Louisville
Miami
Pittsburgh
Syracuse
Virginia Tech

The only real drawback I see is the travel for the Florida schools. I think it would really keep up (and maybe spike fan interest)....

That's probably about as balanced as you can make it ... other than the fact that travel for the Coastal is absolutely brutal, and almost non-existent for the Atlantic (and the Atlantic teams have no guaranteed games in Florida over a 4 year period, which is another big reason for FSU and Miami to be split).

That's not balanced at all. Atlantic has 1 team you expect to be good every year; Coastal has 4.

The current setup is much more balanced. A couple of powers in each division (FSU/Clemson and VaTech/Miami), a couple of schools that are usually middle of the pack and occasionally strong (Louisville/BC/State and GaTech/Pitt/UVA), and a couple of schools that are usually toward the bottom (WFU/Cuse and UNC/Duke).

If the Big 4 has any pull when it comes to football scheduling, we should be lobbying for something like the Pac12, where the 4 California teams are different divisions but they all get to play each other every year to protect the rivalries. All 4 NC schools just can't be in the same division for competitive balance reasons. And FSU and Miami are never going to be in the same division because other schools want to get to play a game in Florida at least every other year for recruiting.

Finally, I think it's generally a bad idea in the conference realignment universe to emphasize factions within the conference. I think we should be downplaying the historic ACC and Big East backgrounds and focusing on being a united 14-team conference.

 

[Maztal]

That's not balanced at all. Atlantic has 1 team you expect to be good every year; Coastal has 4.

The current setup is much more balanced. A couple of powers in each division (FSU/Clemson and VaTech/Miami), a couple of schools that are usually middle of the pack and occasionally strong (Louisville/BC/State and GaTech/Pitt/UVA), and a couple of schools that are usually toward the bottom (WFU/Cuse and UNC/Duke).

If the Big 4 has any pull when it comes to football scheduling, we should be lobbying for something like the Pac12, where the 4 California teams are different divisions but they all get to play each other every year to protect the rivalries. All 4 NC schools just can't be in the same division for competitive balance reasons. And FSU and Miami are never going to be in the same division because other schools want to get to play a game in Florida at least every other year for recruiting.

Finally, I think it's generally a bad idea in the conference realignment universe to emphasize factions within the conference. I think we should be downplaying the historic ACC and Big East backgrounds and focusing on being a united 14-team conference.

how is State classified as "occasionally strong", while Wake, Syracuse, Carolina and Duke are bottom feeders? State is usually terrible. I would switch Syracuse and State. At least Syracuse has actually had a history of being a solid program.

 

[socaldeac]

louisville and BC swap for UNC and Duke.