ACC Sports Journal tackles [Redacted]

[mebanedeac]

Also, you can't just write off a whole season "to be fair"... It's totally fair to expect that we would have improved or shown some competitive edge over the course of the season. Some individuals improved their game or showed progress, but as a TEAM we did not improve at all.

Personally I think we did improve...even considerably. However, when it did not translate into wins, I think some of the players lost hope and essentially gave up. But there was a stretch in which we played much better basketball; however, it did not last. We played UNC and Duke better than anyone would have expected. Plus the first half of our 2nd Fla. State game showed substantial improvement (if I recall correctly Hamilton said that our offensive scheme caused them considerable problems for the 1st half). However for whatever reason, we could not play 2 strong halves and for some reason we gave up toward the end. Thus, in the end we appeared not to have improved; but again for a time we were much better on both ends of the court. Now, it could be argued that all of that was the coach's fault. There a possibility, however, that it is more on the players than the coach.

I doubt that any of us as fans actually know. So we either blame the coach and quit on him. Or, we sit on our fears and allow him space to recruit and to coach and to do the best he can for another season.

 

[deacinwnc]

I am not speaking as a Buzzin guy; however, it seems to me that he had zero opportunity for success given the team he inherited--- which was further complicated by the legal problems and injuries. NO COACH would have accomplished much more with this particular group at this particular stage of their careers. I am convinced of that. Few, however, are willing to admit the impossibility of his situation. Fairness would seem to dictate that while expressing shock and even disgust at the decline of the program, we would recognize that it is not his fault and give him the opportunity to recruit and build the team as best he can. At this point a coaching change will not change our talent or experience. While I am mystified by the hire and would have preferred a more thorough search, he is our coach. His only real fault was accepting the job! But since he is the coach, he should be given a fair opportunity to make something of the mess he inherited (which I guarantee is much much worse than he realized).

No one places all blame on Bzzz. Yes, he walked into a tight spot. But he's had 32 games and a calendar year now to show us something in the way of team improvement and recruiting. This team showed no noticeable improvement as a team, other than standard improvement you would expect to see as the players get more experienced.

As far as Bzzz getting a fair opportunity, I don't really care whether Bzzz feels like he gets one or not. I only care whether leaving Bzzz in the job is fair to Wake Forest, and I don't think it is. What a fair opportunity means will obviously differ from person to person, but for me, 32 games and the chance to do a years worth of recruiting is enough when the program is in the state it's in.

 

[rawarr]

I guess it comes down to how much you think the squad of players is ultimately capable of. My personal opinion is that this situation is a perfect storm of Dino, Wellman, [Redacted], and players all rolled into one. They all share the blame to some extent.

I just think it is outright wrong to ignore the performance we saw on the court this season in the interest of "being fair" to [Redacted]. In fact, I think that it is unfair to the University to NOT pass some judgment on this season.

I gave Jeff a chance from day one and didn't write him off befor he ever coached a game, like some. I'm still not going to call for his head because that isn't my place.

It's one thing to get blown out in a game, or a few games, but nearly every game? I feel that it is "fair" to say that when you are losing almost all of your games in double digit blowouts, that something is not working. The buck stops with the coach.

 

[cookoutdeac]

No one places all blame on Bzzz. Yes, he walked into a tight spot. But he's had 32 games and a calendar year now to show us something in the way of team improvement and recruiting. This team showed no noticeable improvement as a team, other than standard improvement you would expect to see as the players get more experienced.

As far as Bzzz getting a fair opportunity, I don't really care whether Bzzz feels like he gets one or not. I only care whether leaving Bzzz in the job is fair to Wake Forest, and I don't think it is. What a fair opportunity means will obviously differ from person to person, but for me, 32 games and the chance to do a years worth of recruiting is enough when the program is in the state it's in.

Well you aren't exactly giving his recruiting a chance if you haven't even seen them play in a game for us yet.

 

[deacinwnc]

Well you aren't exactly giving his recruiting a chance if you haven't even seen them play in a game for us yet.

I'm not judging the individual recruits. I hope they do well at Wake Forest. I'm judging this new-fangled philosophy where we are apparently only competitive for two and three star players. I have my doubts as to whether this is a philosophy at all, or merely an excuse for the fact Bzzz either can't get, or doesn't want to put in the long hours required to sign, big time basketball recruits. The kind that are actually needed to win the league and progress in the tournament, not just hope to be bubble bound year in and year out.

 

[mebanedeac]

I guess it comes down to how much you think the squad of players is ultimately capable of. My personal opinion is that this situation is a perfect storm of Dino, Wellman, [Redacted], and players all rolled into one. They all share the blame to some extent.

I just think it is outright wrong to ignore the performance we saw on the court this season in the interest of "being fair" to [Redacted]. In fact, I think that it is unfair to the University to NOT pass some judgment on this season.

I gave Jeff a chance from day one and didn't write him off befor he ever coached a game, like some. I'm still not going to call for his head because that isn't my place.

It's one thing to get blown out in a game, or a few games, but nearly every game? I feel that it is "fair" to say that when you are losing almost all of your games in double digit blowouts, that something is not working. The buck stops with the coach.

I certainly understand and sympathize with these thoughts. Perhaps you are right. There is a distinct possibility that he is not the man for this particular situation. Personally I think it is still too early to be sure.

Yet, I am pretty much persuaded that this reasoning is so far reaching that realistically he cannot succeed at Wake...not apart from a drastic change. And, a drastic change is probably not possible. Fair or not, that is a matter of personal judgment. Reality is that a coaching change is virtually inevitable. So it is a matter of when is the best time.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

"Five recruits are committed for the next two years, and the list of other offers for those recruits was underwhelming: Tulsa, Wichita State, UNC-Wilmington, Eastern Michigan, Western Michigan, Marshall. Yikes."

This is the problem, moreso than the horrible season we just endured.

Then it's a good thing that comment is completely false, and any Wake fan that has even a passing interest in recruiting should have realized that.

 

[pinochadeac]

I gave him a chance. He lost me after he sounded like a clueless fool on the radio after the Presby game. The man simply is not inspiring.

Agree that at this point the hole is too deep for him to climb out. I want someone young and exciting like Shaka Smart.

 

[deacvision7]

Don't think it is "completely false." Misguiding, sure, as it left off some of the high majors as well. But we did beat those teams to recruits as well, correct?

 

[Deacsfan27]

The list according to Scout:

Colorado, Elon, UNC-W, UNC-G, Marshall, California, Wichita State, Tulsa.

These are teams according to Scout that offered each recruit. This doesn't take into account teams that were looking at them when they signed.

 

[deacvision7]

I gave him a chance. He lost me after he sounded like a clueless fool on the radio after the Presby game. The man simply is not inspiring.

Agree that at this point the hole is too deep for him to climb out. I want someone young and exciting like Shaka Smart.

I would drive up to Richmond to drive him down here personally.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

The list according to Scout:

Colorado, Elon, UNC-W, UNC-G, Marshall, California, Wichita State, Tulsa.

These are teams according to Scout that offered each recruit. This doesn't take into account teams that were looking at them when they signed.

Why anyone would trust scout's list, I don't know either.

Fields and Green both had a bunch of high major offers.

 

[Kent]

Then it's a good thing that comment is completely false, and any Wake fan that has even a passing interest in recruiting should have realized that.

No one, not even Wake fans with more than "a passing interest in recruiting," knows what offers players actually received, because some players report offers they don't really have and some offers are conditional. Many players get "interest" from a lot of schools that never matures into an actual offer. What we do know is that few if any of these recruits have received a lot of interest from the sort of schools we should be competing against. I'm not dumping on them. I am merely stating facts.

You can believe that Buzz has uncovered some hidden superstars that were completely missed by most other coaches and recruiting publications. You can talk about how that happened with Tim Duncan (who lived in the VI before the massive acceleration in information via the connected age). I hope that's the case. But a lot of history and empirical data indicates that it probably isn't.

 

[cookoutdeac]

No one, not even Wake fans with more than "a passing interest in recruiting," knows what offers players actually received, because some players report offers they don't really have and some offers are conditional. Many players get "interest" from a lot of schools that never matures into an actual offer. What we do know is that few if any of these recruits have received a lot of interest from the sort of schools we should be competing against. I'm not dumping on them. I am merely stating facts.

You can believe that Buzz has uncovered some hidden superstars that were completely missed by most other coaches and recruiting publications. You can talk about how that happened with Tim Duncan (who lived in the VI before the massive acceleration in information via the connected age). I hope that's the case. But a lot of history and empirical data indicates that it probably isn't.

I think it's the complete opposite really. If your only gauge is any interest being shown then there were several high major schools showing interest in a few of our guys (including ACC programs).

WRT to formal scholarships, it's hard to tell what schools would or would not have also offered since we received verbals from some of them so early in the process.

 

[IAppreciateIt]

No one, not even Wake fans with more than "a passing interest in recruiting," knows what offers players actually received, because some players report offers they don't really have and some offers are conditional. Many players get "interest" from a lot of schools that never matures into an actual offer. What we do know is that few if any of these recruits have received a lot of interest from the sort of schools we should be competing against. I'm not dumping on them. I am merely stating facts.

You can believe that Buzz has uncovered some hidden superstars that were completely missed by most other coaches and recruiting publications. You can talk about how that happened with Tim Duncan (who lived in the VI before the massive acceleration in information via the connected age). I hope that's the case. But a lot of history and empirical data indicates that it probably isn't.

What a truly ridiculous stance to take. We should just assume our commits and other sources are lying about what other offers they had. Therefore, we know that they had no other good offers. But I'm not dumping on them!

 

[Kent]

What a truly ridiculous stance to take. We should just assume our commits and other sources are lying about what other offers they had. Therefore, we know that they had no other good offers. But I'm not dumping on them!

Have you not read posts on the DS forum where DD and others say that players claiming a WFU offer on Scout and elsewhere do not actually have one? Do you seriously believe that the lists of offers for players (generally, not just ours) on Scout and elsewhere are completely accurate? If so, then you don't know how recruiting and sports journalism work. When some kid says he has an offer from XYZ, there is often no way to verify that. I'm amazed that you are getting all worked up over what are, essentially, well-known facts.

Let me simplify it for you. I am not saying these kids didn't have offers from Marshall, etc. and I'm not saying they weren't getting letters and calls from bigger programs. What I am saying, and try to stay with me here, is that calls and letters do not always equate to offers.

And yes, these guys could have received better offers had they waited. I just think the odds are better signing players that are already on the radar of the sort of schools we want to be competitive with.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

lol at "open fan revolt"

 

[Deacfan]

I feel like this article should be an eye opener for any bzzinners. The bzzout crowd isnt just us forum posters... its everybody.

 

[deaclite]

The elephant in the room is the fate of the assistant coaches if Bz is replaced. They have survived once and will not likely do so again. I would think since Bz is new that maybe a fair number of posters know an assistant personally. Maybe that explains why there is so much blowback when posters ask reasonable questions about our under the radar recruits.

 

[Deacon4Life]

It seems almost ironic in that Buzz' claim to fame was his inherit knowledge of the game. He would school the team on the "fundamentals" of the game. Did anyone watch the same Wake team at the end of the year vs. the start of the year. They still couldn't 1. pass 2. rebound 3. play team defense 4. play team offense. About the only thing they could do was shoot foul shots.

This says one of two things: a. either he is not as good a coach as Wellman thought or b. the players did not buy into his program. For a recruiting class that ranked in the top ten last year, to lose to the nondescript Stetsons and Presbyterians of the world, all you needed to do was roll the ball out there and talent alone should have beat those two classic basketball powers.

In order for any coach or program to be successful at the highest level, the coach has to have the ability of SELLING HIS VISION to recruits, team members and the fan base. The college game is not the pro game, Buzz. You better be able to SELL YOURSELF because at this time NO ONE is buying your vision. This coach has none of those qualities and will never be better than mediocre at this level, something Wake fans are not accustomed to.

With the incoming recruiting class coming in next year do you REALLY expect more than this year? If you do, please share what you are smoking with the rest of us. A campaign to remove this coach, no matter how nice a guy he may be, and his enabler, Wellman, should be well underway by influential alumni aimed squarely at the President, a former Notre Dame associate who should know something about the value of competitive sports in your two major revenue producing sports, football and basketball.

Speak now or accept Wellman's vision of a lower tier reputation for Wake, something that took 25 years to build into a national name. While sports is not a be all thing for most universities, many understand the role of achievement and abject failure in the overall reputation of their schools no matter how good the academic reputation. Basketball, once a major asset to Wake's reputation, is not tarnishing a great university.