• Welcome to OGBoards 10.0, keep in mind that we will be making LOTS of changes to smooth out the experience here and make it as close as possible functionally to the old software, but feel free to drop suggestions or requests in the Tech Support subforum!

An alternate perspective

I like how in the original post he cites an excuse of us being flat for Tech, yet completely discounts that our "impressive" (10 point home loss) was in part due to Syracuse being flat against us with their game against Duke up next. What was good about our loss to Syracuse? We played hard, but Syracuse rarely blows people out. It was a normal workman like win for them.
 
Last edited:
Wheredeac said:
I'll take the bzzout bait and offer an alternate perspective on today's loss for at least the sake of (civil) discussion. I am as disheartened as anyone with today's effort at the Joel but I'm not convinced the season is now at best a wash. I'm choosing to believe that today was a learning milestone for our players who continue to show progress at an age-appropriate rate. [Redacted] deserves the flack for today's loss but that doesn't negate the fact that his sophomore led team has made huge strides and largely has looked like a good basketball team.
Click to expand...
I don't share your optimism. The team looked very immature yesterday.
 
Of the 7 players on our current team that average more than 10 minutes per game, 1 is a grad student, 1 is a senior, two are sophomores who have now started more than 50 games apiece in their careers, two are sophomores with more than 20 starts apiece, and another is a sophomore who has started 19 games. That is NOT an inexperienced team in today's world of college basketball. The inexperienced argument is total BS at this point.
 
Wheredeac said:
Michigan is the only example in the top-25 with underclassmen who aren't typical "one and done" players winning big consistently. There are certainly other teams with effective underclassmen but no schools with a 3-4 year retention model who are making much bigger strides in year two than our 2016 class.
Click to expand...

Doesn't this show that the retention model isn't the way to win?
 
we have some stupid ass fans who keep defending and making excuses for this shit.
 
Wheredeac said:
Ok. Which teams? You're going to find several (San Diego State, Creighton, and Wichita State to name a few) who are junior/senior led and also have some effective underclassmen in a 3-4 year retention model like our current model.
Click to expand...

Lol at saying our current model as if Bz has an actual system in place for building the program. He's just a hopeless loser struggling to keep his head above water.
 
DeaconSig said:
Our sophomores have played (and in several cases, started) 50+ games. Youth is not a fucking excuse anymore.
Click to expand...

The youth excuse comes not from the class of the player, but the number of games he has played. 15 years ago, you could excuse Sophomores or Frosh because. . .well. . .they hadn't played. Sig is 100% right. . .you cannot use the youth excuse on this crew.

The reason why these guys are all over the place, is not because of their youth, but because they have a leader who has no ability to draw out of them their very best day in and day out. Look. . .I am saying this as uncritically as I can. The issue with Bz is that he lacks the personality, temperament, chemical make-up and experience to lead 18 or 19 year old men. First, he is introverted. Second, he lacks any real experience motivating his players. He spent so much time in the NBA where, you would hope, the players were self-motivated and at the Air Force Academy, where all of the players are self-motivated almost by definition. When you look at his record starting with Colorado, the trend becomes apparent. No. . .it slaps you in the face. It's not a coincidence. The man has no ability to motivate and relate to (normal) 18 year olds. Zero.

In this regard, the comparison with Skip is night and day.
 
Liquid Karma said:
We are so fucked when this monolithic sophomore class exhausts its eligibility.
Click to expand...

No we aren't if we have a new coach who uses his scholarships wisely.
 
At this point, you can't have a rational discussion with anyone who is BzzIn. Any rational person would have realized by now that [Redacted] is not the answer. It's really not worth the effort to argue with anyone who thinks otherwise.
 
Throughout the [Redacted] era it seems that we've played much better at home versus good opponents than we have against bad opponents, home or away. It's because the players have to be self-motivating as [Redacted] just doesn't have the ability to get a team to play hard in his toolbox (note: not sure he actually has anything in that toolbox, or even toolbox at all for that matter).
 
dreadthedeacs said:
At this point, you can't have a rational discussion with anyone who is BzzIn. Any rational person would have realized by now that [Redacted] is not the answer. It's really not worth the effort to argue with anyone who thinks otherwise.
Click to expand...

I tried to talk to a Bzzin fan yesterday after the game and he ended up getting angry because he couldn't respond to any of my points logically.
 
D4L said:
The youth excuse comes not from the class of the player, but the number of games he has played. 15 years ago, you could excuse Sophomores or Frosh because. . .well. . .they hadn't played. Sig is 100% right. . .you cannot use the youth excuse on this crew.

The reason why these guys are all over the place, is not because of their youth, but because they have a leader who has no ability to draw out of them their very best day in and day out. Look. . .I am saying this as uncritically as I can. The issue with Bz is that he lacks the personality, temperament, chemical make-up and experience to lead 18 or 19 year old men. First, he is introverted. Second, he lacks any real experience motivating his players. He spent so much time in the NBA where, you would hope, the players were self-motivated and at the Air Force Academy, where all of the players are self-motivated almost by definition. When you look at his record starting with Colorado, the trend becomes apparent. No. . .it slaps you in the face. It's not a coincidence. The man has no ability to motivate and relate to (normal) 18 year olds. .
Click to expand...
The general "inexperience" argument is absolutely now lame, but I think the "Bz has no ability" is also pretty lame given reports that the coaches and players actually like the guy. There's no real reason to act like the guy has zero talent and that people hate him.

IMO it all goes back to something I heard Coach K say. Success in college basketball depends on player experience, leadership on and off the court, but mostly the ability to overcome adversity which is why the other two matter. We have substantial player experience and based on Devin's comments, CMM has been the on court leader, which is why we've been playing more like a team as the season goes on.

The problem was overcoming adversity. When their on court leader left the game, they stepped up. When our on court leader got injured, McKie stepped up, but the young guys seemed to take on Bz's introverted, reactionary, passive aggressive personality....and dwelled on the excuses instead of playing through the adversity. I feared that as soon as Devin missed that FT so badly. Look at Devin's comments. They are more worried about the community's reaction to the game than anything, so Bz must be talking about it.....probably not overtly but it's coming through.

Bz is simply not a guy that can lead any team through adversity, he can only lead when not facing it. You can't be a college coach (or IMO any effective head coach) and not be able to lead through adversity. This GT loss sealed his fate....as if it were going to be any different anyway.
 
pourdeac said:
The general "inexperience" argument is absolutely now lame, but I think the "Bz has no ability" is also pretty lame given reports that the coaches and players actually like the guy. There's no real reason to act like the guy has zero talent and that people hate him.
Click to expand...

can you point me to the reports that players like the guy?
 
BeachBumDeac said:
can you point me to the reports that players like the guy?
Click to expand...

I can't point to any specific quotes where coaches/players in our program say they actually like Buzz or that he is a good guy. However, I am certain that I recall reading that Devin has espoused a "circle the wagon" mentality when it comes to our embattled "coach".

-22
 
pourdeac said:
The general "inexperience" argument is absolutely now lame, but I think the "Bz has no ability" is also pretty lame given reports that the coaches and players actually like the guy. There's no real reason to act like the guy has zero talent and that people hate him.

IMO it all goes back to something I heard Coach K say. Success in college basketball depends on player experience, leadership on and off the court, but mostly the ability to overcome adversity which is why the other two matter. We have substantial player experience and based on Devin's comments, CMM has been the on court leader, which is why we've been playing more like a team as the season goes on.

The problem was overcoming adversity. When their on court leader left the game, they stepped up. When our on court leader got injured, McKie stepped up, but the young guys seemed to take on Bz's introverted, reactionary, passive aggressive personality....and dwelled on the excuses instead of playing through the adversity. I feared that as soon as Devin missed that FT so badly. Look at Devin's comments. They are more worried about the community's reaction to the game than anything, so Bz must be talking about it.....probably not overtly but it's coming through.

Bz is simply not a guy that can lead any team through adversity, he can only lead when not facing it. You can't be a college coach (or IMO any effective head coach) and not be able to lead through adversity. This GT loss sealed his fate....as if it were going to be any different anyway.
Click to expand...

Do you just ignore everything that BabyDeac75 says? Do you know him IRL? Did he pee in your cheerios? Inquiring minds would like to know as his posts invalidate 99% of your speculation fairly consistently.
 
I sense disharmony on this team. If we are blown out at Duke I think we'll see players mailing it in. I hope I'm wrong but I don't think I am.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top