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At least 172 Palestinians killed, 1,280 injured, UN says 77% are civilians

I'm even willing to cede that Hamas had fired rockets from there (even though I don't really think a UN school would have that going on) and want to hear what that relationship was like. Like, did Hamas just straight up fire rockets and the UN was like oh well?
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I'm even willing to cede that Hamas had fired rockets from there (even though I don't really think a UN school would have that going on) and want to hear what that relationship was like. Like, did Hamas just straight up fire rockets and the UN was like oh well?
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UNRWA found rockets in one of its school buildings the other day. But I don't think it was in use as a school recently
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
I'm even willing to cede that Hamas had fired rockets from there (even though I don't really think a UN school would have that going on) and want to hear what that relationship was like. Like, did Hamas just straight up fire rockets and the UN was like oh well?
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But will you concede it, also?
 
"cede (sd)
tr.v. ced·ed, ced·ing, cedes
1. To surrender possession of, especially by treaty. See Synonyms at relinquish.
2. To yield; grant: The debater refused to cede the point to her opponent."
 
TuffaloDeac10 said:
UNRWA found rockets in one of its school buildings the other day. But I don't think it was in use as a school recently
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So the timeline is the UNRWA found rockets in a building that hasn't been used as a school recently and then the Israeli rockets hit THAT building? Or, they found rockets in a building that hadn't been used as a school recently and as collateral damage the Israeli rockets hit a building nearby that was currently being used as a school?
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
So the timeline is the UNRWA found rockets in a building that hasn't been used as a school recently and then the Israeli rockets hit THAT building? Or, they found rockets in a building that hadn't been used as a school recently and as collateral damage the Israeli rockets hit a building nearby that was currently being used as a school?
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Different buildings, I think
 
You also don't store rockets in schools period. I believe there have been multiple UN School building that have been found to house rockets in the last few weeks. My question is "Why are the people running the schools allowing rockets to be stored there?"
 
The Mangler said:
You also don't store rockets in schools period. I believe there have been multiple UN School building that have been found to house rockets in the last few weeks. My question is "Why are the people running the schools allowing rockets to be stored there?"
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Going out on a ledge here, but I don't think the Hamas militants moving rockets around are negotiating about where to store them or fire them from.
 
Let's play a scenario.


Let's say there are 2 children and one is older and a whole lot stronger. If that stronger child, let's call him Greg, pummeled the other child's face and broke some of their bones but then excused his behavior by saying, "well, Bobby hit me first, plus, I could have killed him if I had wanted to. I'm so much stronger and more powerful than him."


Are you going to praise Greg for showing restraint? Or are you going to scold Greg for pummeling Bobby's face and breaking some of his bones?
 
The Mangler said:
You also don't store rockets in schools period. I believe there have been multiple UN School building that have been found to house rockets in the last few weeks. My question is "Why are the people running the schools allowing rockets to be stored there?"
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Well I'm gonna guess the UN wasn't really given much choice in the matter if there were in fact rockets there.
 
deacvision7 said:
Let's play a scenario.


Let's say there are 2 children and one is older and a whole lot stronger. If that stronger child, let's call him Greg, pummeled the other child's face and broke some of their bones but then excused his behavior by saying, "well, Bobby hit me first, plus, I could have killed him if I had wanted to. I'm so much stronger and more powerful than him."


Are you going to praise Greg for showing restraint? Or are you going to scold Greg for pummeling Bobby's face and breaking some of his bones?
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I get what you're saying, but these analogies are still coming up short. Hamas is actively trying to destroy Israel, and there really isn't any way for Israel to deter further Hamas rockets without civilian casualties, especially with Hamas purposefully putting civilians in danger. I'm not defending Israel bombing a school or sniping rescue workers, those are definite examples of Israel's wrongdoing in this conflict, but in the macro sense this isn't the simple black & white issue we're making it out to be.

Does anyone have anything to add, possibly about alternative strategic scenarios for Israel to force Hamas militants into a cease fire?
 
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myDeaconmyhand said:
Does anyone have anything to add, possibly about alternative strategic scenarios for Israel to force Hamas militants into a cease fire?
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Maybe Israel could have agreed to let Hamas step down and hand over power of Gaza to Fatah like they proposed in April?
 
The Mangler said:
You also don't store rockets in schools period. I believe there have been multiple UN School building that have been found to house rockets in the last few weeks. My question is "Why are the people running the schools allowing rockets to be stored there?"
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UNRWA says the school where the rockets were discovered was vacant. They also informed the IDF of the precise location and coordinates of the school that ended up getting shelled. I don't know how you come around to blaming UNRWA for IDF attacking a building they were told was full of refugees
 
Bombing a school that serves as a shelter is a black/white issue. Just don't do it.

Mangler, Hamas is a TERRORIST organization. They don't care if people allow things. They don't care where they store their stuff. They don't care if civilians die. They are terrorists. And Israel is helping them.
 
deacvision7 said:
Maybe Israel could have agreed to let Hamas step down and hand over power of Gaza to Fatah like they proposed in April?
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of course, but it's probably too late for that now. Hopefully a peaceful Fatah will take power when/if Hamas is displaced.
 
The Mangler said:
They could certainly have closed the school to keep the kids away from an area they know will be a target.
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Holy fuck. Just holy fuck.


The refugees had already fled their homes because they were destroyed, or in danger of being destroyed. So the refugees went to the UN school/shelter to be safe. The UN told the Israeli army the exact coordinates of the building. The UN asked Israel to give them a window of time to evacuate all of the refugees from the area. That request was denied.

The Israeli army then shelled the UN building.



There is literally no way this is anyone's fault by Israel. The UN people there did all they could to get those people out of harms way, but the Israeli army didn't allow them to leave.
 
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