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At least 172 Palestinians killed, 1,280 injured, UN says 77% are civilians

deacvision7 said:
Let's play a scenario.


Let's say there are 2 children and one is older and a whole lot stronger. If that stronger child, let's call him Greg, pummeled the other child's face and broke some of their bones but then excused his behavior by saying, "well, Bobby hit me first, plus, I could have killed him if I had wanted to. I'm so much stronger and more powerful than him."



Are you going to praise Greg for showing restraint? Or are you going to scold Greg for pummeling Bobby's face and breaking some of his bones?
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If Bobby actually hit him first I am not going to say shit, because Bobby asked to have his ass beat.
 
PhDeac said:
Bombing a school that serves as a shelter is a black/white issue. Just don't do it.

Mangler, Hamas is a TERRORIST organization. They don't care if people allow things. They don't care where they store their stuff. They don't care if civilians die. They are terrorists. And Israel is helping them.
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I totally disagree, I think Hamas does care where they store their rockets. I believe they want civilian casualties for propaganda. They are putting themselves in what they perceive as a win-win situation. Either their rockets are safe or they can use stories of this type of attack against the Israelis. The Israelis on the other hand are in a lose-lose.
 
The Mangler said:
I totally disagree, I think Hamas does care where they store their rockets. I believe they want civilian casualties for propaganda. They are putting themselves in what they perceive as a win-win situation. Either their rockets are safe or they can use stories of this type of attack against the Israelis. The Israelis on the other hand are in a lose-lose.
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So Israel is being outsmarted in propaganda by a terrorist organization.

And I wish to make it clear that I despise Hamas and what they stand for, the world would be a better place without idiots like those in it.

However, we should not then pretend that becasue Hamas is evil that is somehow magically absolves Israel from shelling schools and killing hundreds of innocent victims.
 
The Mangler said:
Israelis on the other hand are in a lose-lose.
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I'm sure the Israeli's have a dynamic list of shelling targets, where they believe missiles are being kept or fired from. Are all of their targets schools, playgrounds and hospitals? Probably not. "Bomb the ever loving shit out of densely populated Gaza" isn't exactly a nuanced tactical plan.
 
If untrained civilians on the other side of the globe can see that Israel is being baited into a PR disaster, then the damned Israeli army should be able to see it too, and try and avoid it. If they are willing to just push on, despite the consequences, they deserve the corresponding criticism and bad PR. I'm unwilling to believe that there is no other way.
 
Well none of this back and forth explains why Israel didn't allow time for civilians to evacuate before they bombed the school since the school reached out twice to Israeli officials asking for time to evacuate.

In a statement, the Israel Defense Forces said it is "in the midst of combat, with Hamas terrorists in the area of Beit Hanoun, who are using civilian infrastructure and international symbols as human shields. In the course of the afternoon, several rockets launched by Hamas from within the Gaza Strip landed in the Beit Hanoun area."

But shortly after the strike, (spokesperson for the U.N. school) Chris Gunness tweeted that the coordinates of the shelter had been given to the Israeli military and that the United Nations Relief and Works Agency had twice tried to coordinate with the Israeli military to evacuate the civilians at the shelter.

The shelter is in an area that has seen intense fighting recently.

Gunness posted: "Precise co-ordinates of the UNRWA shelter in Beit Hanoun had been formally given to the Israeli army. ... " Then minutes later, he tweeted: "Over the course of the day UNRWA tried 2 coodinate with the Israeli Army a window for civilians 2 leave & it was never granted. ..."
 
IDF is saying that the school may have been hit by errant Hamas rockets, being fired in the direction of Israeli troops operating in the area, and apparently the UN is not going on record one way or another as to who bombed the school at this time.
 
Stuff like this is why Putin can afford to not GAF.
 
If it turns out to be a errant Hamas rocket then I will quickly rescind my earlier scathing words about Israel.

But, if it is proven to be Israeli weaponry that did this, then I will consider that a war crime since the Israelis knew who was there and had the exact coordinates to the building.
 
I presume that means you also conclude it wasn't an errant Israeli projectile as well and also are able to conclude it wasn't a purposeful strike by Hamas itself. We are, afterall, talking about a group that claims to represent the interests of Muslims but has still launched 12,000 projectiles at a country with a population that is 1/8th Muslim.
 
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