BBall Recruiting Thread 2k16- SJM, Washington, Childress & Mitchell sign NLIs; 2017?

[jhmd2000]

Those of us micro-olds will remember the last total rebuild of Wake Forest Men's Basketball. Coach Odom (correct me if there were any Staak hangovers) landed a respectable series of commits like Chris King and Derrick McQueen (biggest calves in the business) and get Anthony Tucker to transfer in (memory says Georgetown, but that may be (or also be) Charlie Harrison). That foundation led to Rodney/Randolph/Mahktar commits and eventually Duncan emerged from the rough for Wake's once-in-a-lifetime find. None of that happened overnight. Wake has ten years of recruiting kids who get passed over by schools (with the unique opportunity of an ACC school of going to beat those schools) and kids from Europe and then making the tournament with those kids to rehab the brand before they can reasonably expect to compete for the next Giles.

Build 20 win talent first, and then shoot for 30+ win talent. Swinging for the Giles-types and missing (badly) fails the movement/activity test. I don't think you jump from 15 wins to 35 wins in a season, even today. I guess Giles is a one-off being a hometown kid but asking one kid to become a program savior isn't realistic or fair to that kid. Nobody should have been surprised when he signed with Mr. Mouse. We're about to see what kind of front office type Manning is, now that he didn't land the big free agent.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

Those of us micro-olds will remember the last total rebuild of Wake Forest Men's Basketball. Coach Odom (correct me if there were any Staak hangovers) landed a respectable series of commits like Chris King and Derrick McQueen (biggest calves in the business) and get Anthony Tucker to transfer in (memory says Georgetown, but that may be (or also be) Charlie Harrison). That foundation led to Rodney/Randolph/Mahktar commits and eventually Duncan emerged from the rough for Wake's once-in-a-lifetime find. None of that happened overnight. Wake has ten years of recruiting kids who get passed over by schools (with the unique opportunity of an ACC school of going to beat those schools) and kids from Europe and then making the tournament with those kids to rehab the brand before they can reasonably expect to compete for the next Giles.

Build 20 win talent first, and then shoot for 30+ win talent. Swinging for the Giles-types and missing (badly) fails the movement/activity test. I don't think you jump from 15 wins to 35 wins in a season, even today. I guess Giles is a one-off being a hometown kid but asking one kid to become a program savior isn't realistic or fair to that kid. Nobody should have been surprised when he signed with Mr. Mouse. We're about to see what kind of front office type Manning is, now that he didn't land the big free agent.

You're correct, Tucker and Harrison came from G-town.

 

[Buttermaker]

Those of us micro-olds will remember the last total rebuild of Wake Forest Men's Basketball. Coach Odom (correct me if there were any Staak hangovers) landed a respectable series of commits like Chris King and Derrick McQueen (biggest calves in the business) and get Anthony Tucker to transfer in (memory says Georgetown, but that may be (or also be) Charlie Harrison). That foundation led to Rodney/Randolph/Mahktar commits and eventually Duncan emerged from the rough for Wake's once-in-a-lifetime find. None of that happened overnight. Wake has ten years of recruiting kids who get passed over by schools (with the unique opportunity of an ACC school of going to beat those schools) and kids from Europe and then making the tournament with those kids to rehab the brand before they can reasonably expect to compete for the next Giles.

Build 20 win talent first, and then shoot for 30+ win talent. Swinging for the Giles-types and missing (badly) fails the movement/activity test. I don't think you jump from 15 wins to 35 wins in a season, even today. I guess Giles is a one-off being a hometown kid but asking one kid to become a program savior isn't realistic or fair to that kid. Nobody should have been surprised when he signed with Mr. Mouse. We're about to see what kind of front office type Manning is, now that he didn't land the big free agent.

I'm not sure you can say Manning missed "badly" on Giles nor fault him for recruiting him in the first place. Apparently, Giles decision came down to Duke or WF. Maybe he should have had a better backup plan, but he should be recruiting a top player in Winston-Salem.

 

[jhmd2000]

I'm not sure you can say Manning missed "badly" on Giles nor fault him for recruiting him in the first place. Apparently, Giles decision came down to Duke or WF. Maybe he should have had a better backup plan, but he should be recruiting a top player in Winston-Salem.

Like I said that Giles (as a National #1 in your own backyard) is a one-off and you have to go after the best player in the City (and probably State), but you build your program on what happens when things don't go to plan. Prosser proved how to (and how not to) win at Wake Forest. Talent and depth at PG will make or break you. Wake had TIM DUNCAN for three years and didn't make a Final Four. Guard play wins or loses you games that matter.

 

[tsywake]

Horrible tactic. You've got to attack that from above.

 

[Milhouse]

I'm not sure you can say Manning missed "badly" on Giles nor fault him for recruiting him in the first place. Apparently, Giles decision came down to Duke or WF. Maybe he should have had a better backup plan, but he should be recruiting a top player in Winston-Salem.

apparently according to........

 

[OldGoldBeard]

Those of us micro-olds will remember the last total rebuild of Wake Forest Men's Basketball. Coach Odom (correct me if there were any Staak hangovers) landed a respectable series of commits like Chris King and Derrick McQueen (biggest calves in the business) and get Anthony Tucker to transfer in (memory says Georgetown, but that may be (or also be) Charlie Harrison). That foundation led to Rodney/Randolph/Mahktar commits and eventually Duncan emerged from the rough for Wake's once-in-a-lifetime find. None of that happened overnight. Wake has ten years of recruiting kids who get passed over by schools (with the unique opportunity of an ACC school of going to beat those schools) and kids from Europe and then making the tournament with those kids to rehab the brand before they can reasonably expect to compete for the next Giles.

Build 20 win talent first, and then shoot for 30+ win talent. Swinging for the Giles-types and missing (badly) fails the movement/activity test. I don't think you jump from 15 wins to 35 wins in a season, even today. I guess Giles is a one-off being a hometown kid but asking one kid to become a program savior isn't realistic or fair to that kid. Nobody should have been surprised when he signed with Mr. Mouse. We're about to see what kind of front office type Manning is, now that he didn't land the big free agent.

Both King and McQueen were freshmen in '88-'89. Tucker appears to have transferred in the spring of '88. Odom became our head coach prior to the '89-'90 season. He landed Rogers, Childress, and Tree Owens in his very first recruiting class, and all three were freshmen on the '90-'91 team that won 19 games, finished 3rd in the ACC, and made the second round of the NCAAT. Maybe that wasn't overnight, but it was awfully darn quick.

 

[Buttermaker]

Like I said that Giles (as a National #1 in your own backyard) is a one-off and you have to go after the best player in the City (and probably State), but you build your program on what happens when things don't go to plan. Prosser proved how to (and how not to) win at Wake Forest. Talent and depth at PG will make or break you. Wake had TIM DUNCAN for three years and didn't make a Final Four. Guard play wins or loses you games that matter.

Agree he was unlikely to be a program savior as a one and done and that the pieces recruited around him (or as replacements) will have more impact long term.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

Both King and McQueen were freshmen in '88-'89. Tucker appears to have transferred in the spring of '88. Odom became our head coach prior to the '89-'90 season. He landed Rogers, Childress, and Tree Owens in his very first recruiting class, and all three were freshmen on the '90-'91 team that won 19 games, finished 3rd in the ACC, and made the second round of the NCAAT. Maybe that wasn't overnight, but it was awfully darn quick.

That tells us how good of a coach GDO was. Granted, there were 8(9)? ACC teams in 90-91, instead of 16. I always forget what year FSU joined.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

That tells us how good of a coach GDO was. Granted, there were 8(9)? ACC teams in 90-91, instead of 16. I always forget what year FSU joined.

1992 I think.

 

[SMUDeac]

Someone mentioned this probably 300+ pages back, but we need to show success on the court before we can get some 5-stars. Let's make the tournament and win a game or 2 to prove we are back.

We can do this with 4&3 star guys and good coaching. We don't have to win the ACC... yet. We need to get back on the stage.

Teague & Johnson were not elite recruits. But they paved the way for Aminu& co who were.

That's great but let's be honest, when we were "here" we struggled to win "a game or 2" in the tournament.

 

[CreamyGoodness]

1992 I think.

That sounds right. So he finished 3rd out of 8 in 90-91. In those years, I'm pretty sure 3, at the most 4 teams made the dance. Either way, that's impressive to do so early in his tenure at Wake. Would kill for a 2nd round NCAAT appearance in Danny's 3rd year.

 

[pourdeac]

Those of us micro-olds will remember the last total rebuild of Wake Forest Men's Basketball. Coach Odom (correct me if there were any Staak hangovers) landed a respectable series of commits like Chris King and Derrick McQueen (biggest calves in the business) and get Anthony Tucker to transfer in (memory says Georgetown, but that may be (or also be) Charlie Harrison). That foundation led to Rodney/Randolph/Mahktar commits and eventually Duncan emerged from the rough for Wake's once-in-a-lifetime find. None of that happened overnight. Wake has ten years of recruiting kids who get passed over by schools (with the unique opportunity of an ACC school of going to beat those schools) and kids from Europe and then making the tournament with those kids to rehab the brand before they can reasonably expect to compete for the next Giles.

Build 20 win talent first, and then shoot for 30+ win talent. Swinging for the Giles-types and missing (badly) fails the movement/activity test. I don't think you jump from 15 wins to 35 wins in a season, even today. I guess Giles is a one-off being a hometown kid but asking one kid to become a program savior isn't realistic or fair to that kid. Nobody should have been surprised when he signed with Mr. Mouse. We're about to see what kind of front office type Manning is, now that he didn't land the big free agent.

This.

Look at the Skip era recruits (either recruited by him or inherited as freshman from Odom).

<100 RSCI players. 16 players

Paul: 14.8 as fr NBA after year 2.
Johnson. 14.6 as fr. NBA after year 2.
Teague. 13.9 as fr. NBA after year 2.
Aminu. 12.9 as fr NBA after year 2.

Ingram bust.
Weaver bust
Swinton bust.
Walker. bust

Danelius: 6.6 as fr.
BigE: 8.7 as fr
Gray: 12.7 as fr
Levy. 2.7 as fr but played well following 3 years.

Strickland 4.3 pts as fr but did very well senior year.

Skeen. 7.5 as fr but declined and transferred.
Gurley 6.4 as fr but transferred
Woods. Not great at Wake but played well at Oregon.

25% were 2 and dones, and other than the hometown find, were later in his arc at Wake after he built a reputation. He had 4 college/international pro level players + Strickland who blossomed late. 3 players who disappointed for various reasons and left. 25% bust rate...which has to be pretty high for highly recruited players.

> 100 RSCI players. 13 players.

Ish Smith: 8.7 pts/6 ass as fr, NBA role player.
LD Williams: 8.2 pts/4.1rbs as fr
Hale: 5.6pts as fr but played OK after that.
Downey: 4.2pts as fr but played well after that, 9.9pts
McFarland: not well as fr, but played well after that.

Gary Clark: role player until senior year..10.9pts.
Visser: not until senior year when he was 17/7.4

Joyce: nopr
Hendley: nope and transferred.
Cam Stanley: nope
Dukes: nope.
Crawford: nope.
Ellis: insignificant.

6 busts (or minor role). 5 solid college/international pro level players. 2 late bloomers like Strickland.

30% of Skips recruits (10 of 29) were pretty much never contributors (and I think Odom experienced a similar rate). He made up for that by bringing in top talent, but the lack of quality depth often hurt us. If Manning can avoid the busts, then we'll have a solid base to then go after the top guys...and be successful. That's what I see him doing so far.

 

[liveanddiedeac]

That sounds right. So he finished 3rd out of 8 in 90-91. In those years, I'm pretty sure 3, at the most 4 teams made the dance. Either way, that's impressive to do so early in his tenure at Wake. Would kill for a 2nd round NCAAT appearance in Danny's 3rd year.

Odom came in and had us back in good shape really quick. I do think much like Grobe did, Odom had better talent to work with coming in than Clawson or Manning have had.

 

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