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BillBrasky Memorial Political Chat Thread

PhDeac said:
Biden will be working with almost two years of real positive wage growth by the time people actually vote. So if you believe feelings align with these facts, people will feel better about the economy when it matters.
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Who are you arguing with here? As long as you understand that voters have been and are currently dissatisfied with the economy, and you can look at the data and acknowledge why they might feel dissatisfied, that’s all I care about. That’s what Matt Breunig wrote in his tweet, which I agreed with.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
Who are you arguing with here? As long as you understand that voters have been and are currently dissatisfied with the economy, and you can look at the data and acknowledge why they might feel dissatisfied, that’s all I care about. That’s what Matt Breunig wrote in his tweet, which I agreed with.
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I thought we were having a conversation. You’re choosing to be combative.
 
PhDeac said:
I thought we were having a conversation. You’re choosing to be combative.
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It definitely feels like to me that this conversation is trending towards “the economy is doing good, these irrational voters are being unfair to Joe Biden”. I’m just trying to avoid being in that conversation. I’m pretty notorious for disagreeing with voters, so? You know, tough shit for him - he has to play the cards he’s dealt and win his constituency back. That’s life. Nobody said winning a Presidential election was easy.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
It definitely feels like to me that this conversation is trending towards “the economy is doing good, these irrational voters are being unfair to Joe Biden”. I’m just trying to avoid being in that conversation. I’m pretty notorious for disagreeing with voters, so? You know, tough shit for him - he has to play the cards he’s dealt and win his constituency back. That’s life. Nobody said winning a Presidential election was easy.
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Trending towards?
 
Strickland33 said:
Trending towards?
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I was being generous. It’s exhausting living with this fucking premise that Democratic voters have to save the world by voting for Joe Biden, vs…Joe Biden himself having to win an election. Every news event or new perspective has to be discussed in a way that either flatters Biden or at least absolves him of responsibility.
 
PhDeac said:
No shit. But those are the facts and frankly that’s how recovery works. Things get really bad, then less bad, then better. The complaint is that process didn’t happen quickly enough which frankly is a sign that people have memory holed the pandemic and expected an unrealistic turnaround.

But what we got was a reasonable recovery. Things got really bad as we were still just getting vaccinated and wearing masks. Things got less bad as the spread of COVID slowed down. Things got better as we established a new normal.

My main point which you conveniently ignored was if trends hold, Biden will be working with almost two years of real positive wage growth by the time people actually vote. So if you believe feelings align with these facts, people will feel better about the economy when it matters.
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People haven't memory-holed the pandemic, they realized that most of the negative economic ramifications from the pandemic were self-inflicted results of the misguided response. Some of it was out of good-faith caution, but a significant portion was complete bullshit and a result of stupidity by our elected officials, a good amount of which was under Biden's watch. It only became an unrealistic turnaround because of the depths that he drove our economy into. He doesn't get to say oh I fucked this up so bad that you need to both absolve me from fucking it up and give me a longer recovery runway due to the degree of my own fuck up.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
People haven't memory-holed the pandemic, they realized that most of the negative economic ramifications from the pandemic were self-inflicted results of the misguided response. Some of it was out of good-faith caution, but a significant portion was complete bullshit and a result of stupidity by our elected officials, a good amount of which was under Biden's watch. It only became an unrealistic turnaround because of the depths that he drove our economy into. He doesn't get to say oh I fucked this up so bad that you need to both absolve me from fucking it up and give me a longer recovery runway due to the degree of my own fuck up.
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The economy opened back up right as Biden took office, hence the inflation.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
It definitely feels like to me that this conversation is trending towards “the economy is doing good, these irrational voters are being unfair to Joe Biden”. I’m just trying to avoid being in that conversation. I’m pretty notorious for disagreeing with voters, so? You know, tough shit for him - he has to play the cards he’s dealt and win his constituency back. That’s life. Nobody said winning a Presidential election was easy.
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It seems like you're trying to have that conversation instead of the one we're actually having. You're consistently steering conversations into a conversation you claim you're trying to avoid. under the premise that we're talking about it.

myDeaconmyhand said:
I was being generous. It’s exhausting living with this fucking premise that Democratic voters have to save the world by voting for Joe Biden, vs…Joe Biden himself having to win an election. Every news event or new perspective has to be discussed in a way that either flatters Biden or at least absolves him of responsibility.
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We were talking about the facts of a chart you wanted to discuss. The facts do show a recovery and if those trends hold, it will "flatter" Biden. You seem to agree with that.

Part of any incumbent's pitch should be "Hey, look what I've done for you. Vote for me to keep this going!" Biden's task should be to get Dems on board with that message instead of just accepting the Republican message.
 
PhDeac said:
The facts do show a recovery and if those trends hold, it will "flatter" Biden. You seem to agree with that.
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I disagree with the way that you and Stancil and others are interpreting the economic data here, which I am very much acccusing you of spinning for Biden’s sake…because you keep tying the outlook of it to his re-election with your comments.

People went through a long period, multiple years, where wages fell, and only just now are returning to pre-pandemic levels. People suffered during that time - they lost a lot of money, a ton of businesses closed. Now wages have returned to pre pandemic growth levels, but that doesn’t mean people have personally recovered from what they lost. If you are the weatherman measuring the rain during a hurricane, you can well say “rain levels have returned to normal levels, but that doesn’t consider the damage done during the hurricane. The idea that people should suddenly be satisfied with the economy is flippant IMO.
 
I mean the only way to settle this is







kumite


reveal yourself, stancil, you coward
 
ChrisL68 said:
The economy opened back up right as Biden took office, hence the inflation.
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myDeaconmyhand said:
I disagree with the way that you and Stancil and others are interpreting the economic data here, which I am very much acccusing you of spinning for Biden’s sake…because you keep tying the outlook of it to his re-election with your comments.

People went through a long period, multiple years, where wages fell, and only just now are returning to pre-pandemic levels. People suffered during that time - they lost a lot of money, a ton of businesses closed. Now wages have returned to pre pandemic growth levels, but that doesn’t mean people have personally recovered from what they lost. If you are the weatherman measuring the rain during a hurricane, you can well say “rain levels have returned to normal levels, but that doesn’t consider the damage done during the hurricane. The idea that people should suddenly be satisfied with the economy is flippant IMO.
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Over here in our most populous state, the Minimum wage has been going up by 7% year over year for like 5 years straight. There were little wages falling. There were job losses/changes though.
 
myDeaconmyhand said:
I disagree with the way that you and Stancil and others are interpreting the economic data here, which I am very much acccusing you of spinning for Biden’s sake…because you keep tying the outlook of it to his re-election with your comments.

People went through a long period, multiple years, where wages fell, and only just now are returning to pre-pandemic levels. People suffered during that time - they lost a lot of money, a ton of businesses closed. Now wages have returned to pre pandemic growth levels, but that doesn’t mean people have personally recovered from what they lost. If you are the weatherman measuring the rain during a hurricane, you can well say “rain levels have returned to normal levels, but that doesn’t consider the damage done during the hurricane. The idea that people should suddenly be satisfied with the economy is flippant IMO.
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OK. But I didn't say any people should be happy with the economy. I did say that the trends are positive based on what you posted. We're all talking about the economy in relation to the re-election, so I'm not sure how that's a critique. Otherwise, we would only care about what's actually happening, not people's perceptions of what's happening.

If you want to argue with what Stancil says, do it on Twitter. If you want to argue with me, focus on what I've said.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
People haven't memory-holed the pandemic, they realized that most of the negative economic ramifications from the pandemic were self-inflicted results of the misguided response. Some of it was out of good-faith caution, but a significant portion was complete bullshit and a result of stupidity by our elected officials, a good amount of which was under Biden's watch. It only became an unrealistic turnaround because of the depths that he drove our economy into. He doesn't get to say oh I fucked this up so bad that you need to both absolve me from fucking it up and give me a longer recovery runway due to the degree of my own fuck up.
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This is quite possibly the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read here. Literally every single sentence is false at a bare minimum and intentionally intellectually dishonest.
 
Liquid Karma said:
This is quite possibly the dumbest fucking thing I've ever read here. Literally every single sentence is false at a bare minimum and intentionally intellectually dishonest.
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Feel free to keep your head up your ass during 4 more years of Trump. It is condescending attitudes like yours why we are going to get it. You are about to get the ultimate collective fuck you from the American people. Enjoy, you've got nobody to blame but yourself.
 
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