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Catholic Church Thread

Townie,

You've clearly studied the subject, and so have many folks who are religious. Pushing 40, I've got a more in depth feeling in my faith, whereas at 20, I had more doubt than anything as I studied philosohpy and religion. I'm pretty sure losts of folks have had the opposite experience.

Here's the thing. Why does anyone care if I believe in what they think is a fairly tale if it brings me peace and helps me live by a more socially helpful moral code, including not ridiculing other religions? (Obviously it would be different if I was loading up for a Crusade and attacking random cities).

Also, to some others if you want to sway Catholics and/or the Church, making fun of their faith isn't going to get you very far. Like a lot of religions, smaller groups of members meet - with and without clergy - and disucss issues of the day, including those where opinions differ from the Church.

Of course if these statements are to show how cool you are for not being "brainwashed" or a "puppet," you are pretty much a bigot.

And finally, unlike most of you, I've worked on civil cases against the Church & individuals for the acts of unspeakable cruelty. It just is far less prevelant than you'd believe in the media and pretty annoying since the coverage of these dwarf the unbelievable good acts of the Church.

Reading posts claiming the Church is a Criminal Enterprise and having people joke around instead of condemning this makes me feel pretty poor about Mother So Dear. This has been going on for more than a year on these boards.
 
I don't care what anyone believes as long as they don't try to legislate it on others, such as blue laws or Ammendment 1.
 
Well you don't have to worry about blues laws and Catholics, although getting out of mass is why the Red Sox play at 2 on Sundays. Also most younger Catholics would accept the deal to have gay marriage, but the Catholic Church won't recongize it (even for benefits). My daughter's Godmother is a lesbian and that didn;t mess with the baptism.

Same with contaception. But you have to remember that the Church considers itself to include the actual Church, its schools, hospitals, charities, social programs, reahb centers, homeless sheleters, etc... That's really the fight between the bishops and the adminstration - what is included in the Church.

The chruch isn't moving on abortion or the morning after pill though. If you believe life begins at conception, it is pretty hard to compromise on this. If you don't, it's pretty easy to see why the reproductive rights of a woman should be paramount prior to the inception of life. Civil diagreement is the best that either side is getting on that one.

Anyway, after a year, the constant shots at the Church and the posters who join in - but are careful to make sure it is only "joking", while never repudiating it has gotten more than old. I can't think of a religion or ethnic group that the board would allow to be subject to this type of posting.
 
Geez dude take a Valium. Most of this isn't serious and is just meant to aggravate you because you have shown to be so easily aggravated
 
Last year there were theads titled, "The Catholic Church is a Criminal Enterprise," and similar diatribes from a board mod. Would you be so cavalier if these threads were about Muslims, Jews, Asians, etc...?
 
A mod who hasn't posted in over a month.

Believers generally believe that non-believers are going to hell. I would suggest growing a thicker skin.
 
Not my call who goes to hell or not, or whether their is a physical existence thereof or whether it is a state of an absence of God. Beyond my pay grade.

And being called a bigot for Church bashing is certainly a lot kinder than getting private messages about being pro-pedophile when I have actually been part of the legal team suing certain priest for abuse.
 
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I'm having a hard time understanding why you believe the catholic church is persecuted on these boards. If you're talking about moonz, well what in the world do you expect? And just for the record, during its entire history, the church has likely done more bad than good. The first few hindered years were a little rocky.
 
Actually, the first few hundred years the Church was a persecuted minority, until the Church was legalized by the Romans inthe early 4th Century A.D. and adopted as state religion some 65 years later. The Catholic Church didn't really begin to do damage on a political scale until much later. However, to say this outwieghs the vast good the Church has done is a grossly distorted view of history. The Catholic Church operated more hospitals and feeds more poor than any organization in the world.

You have indeed heard a biased view of history that has biased you against the Church.
 
TownieDeac said:
And you, Wrangor, for responding to me rather than just neg repping and running away as others did to my post (don't care about the rep at all, would just rather people talk; looking at you demondeacfreak).

Though Nietzsche almost certainly had syphilis and was undoubtedly absolutely crazy at the end of his life, he offered up the notion of "saying yes," and in simpler terms, I like to say that I will never close my mind. I hope Christians don't simply allow themselves to stop asking questions, because it can't be a way to live. That was all I really meant by the bolded part. I think there's an important difference between faith and blind, unquestioning faith.
Click to expand...

Questioning your own beliefs is the only way to obtain true faith. You don't really trust a bridge that spans two chasms unless you have some sort of proof that it will hold your weights. That proof might be a sign, it might come by inspecting the structure, but it isn't faith if you walk blindly out on something without a point of reference, it is stupidity. Many people will argue what the point of reference SHOULD be, but I completely agree that blind faith is not what the Bible calls for, or what anyone should employ when seeking to answer the most difficult questions in life.
 
Ball State Deac said:
And just for the record, during its entire history, the church has likely done more bad than good.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty ballsy statement to make. We're talking about an institution with over a billion members. The impacts of that institution today and throughout history have so many tentacles you can't possibly make that type of statement with any type of assurance. You might as well say during the entire history of the world people have done more bad than good? Is that true? How the heck do we measure it?
 
Wrangor said:
Or you could look at it as a fish swimming in the ocean rather than trying to walk around on the sand. Thriving in the environment you were meant for. But I understand your reservations. Thanks for responding honestly.
Click to expand...

Now that I'm far less drunk than last night, I see the missed opportunity here to make an evolution joke.
 
mfdeacs99 said:
Townie,

You've clearly studied the subject, and so have many folks who are religious. Pushing 40, I've got a more in depth feeling in my faith, whereas at 20, I had more doubt than anything as I studied philosohpy and religion. I'm pretty sure losts of folks have had the opposite experience.

Here's the thing. Why does anyone care if I believe in what they think is a fairly tale if it brings me peace and helps me live by a more socially helpful moral code, including not ridiculing other religions? (Obviously it would be different if I was loading up for a Crusade and attacking random cities).

I know I don't care, especially given your conditions.

Also, to some others if you want to sway Catholics and/or the Church, making fun of their faith isn't going to get you very far. Like a lot of religions, smaller groups of members meet - with and without clergy - and disucss issues of the day, including those where opinions differ from the Church.

Sounds awesome. Bible study was one of my favorite high school social gatherings. The book of Hebrews is my JAM.

Of course if these statements are to show how cool you are for not being "brainwashed" or a "puppet," you are pretty much a bigot.

Don't know that I agree with the bigot part, but I am definitely not trying to show off how cool I am on the Wake politics board. I'm saving that for the dance floor at a wedding this weekend.

And finally, unlike most of you, I've worked on civil cases against the Church & individuals for the acts of unspeakable cruelty. It just is far less prevelant than you'd believe in the media and pretty annoying since the coverage of these dwarf the unbelievable good acts of the Church.

Reading posts claiming the Church is a Criminal Enterprise and having people joke around instead of condemning this makes me feel pretty poor about Mother So Dear. This has been going on for more than a year on these boards.

I am proud of the good works of the church, and ashamed it hasn't done more to curb the bad. I wouldn't go so far as to call it a criminal enterprise personally.
Click to expand...

bold responses (NO PUN INTENDED)
 
History is not Ball State's long suit. His statement was a reach, to say the least, and basically absurd. But it does point to what is most likely and underlying anti-Catholic Church attitude. Many people, who in other ways have been perfectly nice people, and I'm pretty sure Ball State is among them, have shared in this type of anti-Catholicism. What can you say? It's a type of bigotry that is not only tolerated but also to some extent fashionable in our time.

Just for the record, I am not a Catholic.
 
mfdeacs99 said:
Well you don't have to worry about blues laws and Catholics, although getting out of mass is why the Red Sox play at 2 on Sundays. Also most younger Catholics would accept the deal to have gay marriage, but the Catholic Church won't recongize it (even for benefits). My daughter's Godmother is a lesbian and that didn;t mess with the baptism.

Same with contaception. But you have to remember that the Church considers itself to include the actual Church, its schools, hospitals, charities, social programs, reahb centers, homeless sheleters, etc... That's really the fight between the bishops and the adminstration - what is included in the Church.

The chruch isn't moving on abortion or the morning after pill though. If you believe life begins at conception, it is pretty hard to compromise on this. If you don't, it's pretty easy to see why the reproductive rights of a woman should be paramount prior to the inception of life. Civil diagreement is the best that either side is getting on that one.

Anyway, after a year, the constant shots at the Church and the posters who join in - but are careful to make sure it is only "joking", while never repudiating it has gotten more than old. I can't think of a religion or ethnic group that the board would allow to be subject to this type of posting.
Click to expand...

I guess my issue with this is that it's acceptable on the smaller institutional scale to buy into and preach these social beliefs, but less acceptable when you use your clout and considerable $ as an institution to infringe on the rights of others (regardless of whether or not you believe people are entitled to those rights). Really wish some of the $ spent by the church backing hateful legislation would go towards its more constructive, positive applications such as homeless shelters and other charities.
 
i'm not joking. i think people who believe in mythology are silly. i think people who vigorously defend mythology are morons. i don't give a damn if you are "order of the coif" or whatever pompous bullshit you like to spout off to show everybody how smart you think you are.
 
sailordeac said:
But it does point to what is most likely and underlying anti-_____ attitude. Many people, who in other ways have been perfectly nice people, and I'm pretty sure Ball State is among them, have shared in this type of anti-_______. What can you say? It's a type of bigotry that is not only tolerated but also to some extent fashionable in our time.

Just for the record, I am not a _______
Click to expand...

It's almost like Mad Libs. Works for anything.
 
DeacMan said:
That's a pretty ballsy statement to make. We're talking about an institution with over a billion members. The impacts of that institution today and throughout history have so many tentacles you can't possibly make that type of statement with any type of assurance. You might as well say during the entire history of the world people have done more bad than good? Is that true? How the heck do we measure it?
Click to expand...

Ask mf. He's got the formula.

And maybe my historical facts are wrong, but wasn't the Catholic Church A OK with slavery for an awkwardly long period of time and jail one of the greatest minds for suggesting that the earth wasn't the center of the universe? Hard to say how far it science back through its active and intentional efforts.

And look, I'm not anti-catholic. Midnight Christmas mass is awesome.
 
Milhouse said:
i'm not joking. i think people who believe in mythology are silly. i think people who vigorously defend mythology are morons. i don't give a damn if you are "order of the coif" or whatever pompous bullshit you like to spout off to show everybody how smart you think you are.
Click to expand...

To give you an idea how unimpressed you should be with order of the coif, mf and I share that designation.
 
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