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Clawson by the numbers

You can’t compare the Peahead era to today or even the Grobe era- completely different game. Yes- Grobe won ACC and has had more winning seasons in league play than DC but that doesn’t tell entire story. The quality of the league’s coaches went up significantly between the Grobe and Clawson era (largely because of LoWF’s and Dukes success). I’m only including ones we play frequently enough to care- we don’t play Miami and GT enough anyways.

State - Amato/TOB to Doeren - huge upgrade
Clemson - Bowden/young Dabo to Dabo in his prime - huge upgrade
Duke - Roof and Cut to Cut and Elko- upgrade - Cut’s prime overlapped both eras
UNC- Bunting/Davis/Fedora to Fedora/Brown- Huge Upgrade
UVA- Groh/London to Bronco/Elliott - Huge upgrade
FSU- Senile Bowden/Rising Jimbo to Jimbo/Taggart/Norvell- feel like this one is a wash on the whole
VT- Beamer in his prime to Beamer past his prime/Fuente/Pry- only downgrade in my opinion
BC- TOB/jags/Spazz to Adazio/Hafley - wash?

Not to mention the fact that we lost MD as an opponent at end of 2013- a team that we had finally started to figure out how to beat and replaced them with Pitt and LVille- historically better programs than MD- LVille who we drew every year. we did benefit with gaining Cuse as an opponent as we’re fairly evenly matched teams.
 
Good point about coaching quality.
 
Nobody is advocating for Clawson to be fired right now. But we should be paying attention and keep in mind the end of Grobe’s tenure. Grobe was useless for his final five seasons and left nothing for Clawson to work with for two seasons. So those were seven lost seasons. Realistically it became clear by 10 and 11 that Grobe wasn’t recapturing and remaking 2006-2008. We need to be paying attention and not let Clawson overstay his welcome if it becomes a similar situation. Our lack of clear eyed and rational thinking in hiring and firing over the course of decades has led us where we are today.
 
Arsene Wenger said:
Nobody is advocating for Clawson to be fired right now. But we should be paying attention and keep in mind the end of Grobe’s tenure. Grobe was useless for his final five seasons and left nothing for Clawson to work with for two seasons. So those were seven lost seasons. Realistically it became clear by 10 and 11 that Grobe wasn’t recapturing and remaking 2006-2008. We need to be paying attention and not let Clawson overstay his welcome if it becomes a similar situation. Our lack of clear eyed and rational thinking in hiring and firing over the course of decades has led us where we are today.
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2010- that was a rebuilding year after losing our 4 year starting QB Riley Skinner. Yeah it was a bad year but definitely an “earned” mulligan - much like 2023. 2011- That team finished 5-3 in conference and IIRC- had a chance to win @ Clemson and lost by 3. Closest Clemson game of Dabo era other than 2022. We win that game - we’re playing for another league title. 2012 and 2013 were seasons it was clear Grobe had mailed it in.

But yeah I see your point - as posted before by me and others - sign of a good program is coach leaving when stock is high for better opportunity - you’re well positioned with attracting a good coach and get the buyout money. We likely would have avoided the down years 2012 - 2015 if Grobe went to Arkansas in 2007. Would have attracted a great coach in 2008 with stellar defense coming back and hopefully built program from there. However- timing doesn’t likely line up to get DC so it’s moot.

Would we have been better off if Clawson went to VT end of 2021? Too early to tell but history has its way of repeating itself.
 
Realistically we don’t want a Grobe to be here for 13 years followed by a Clawson for 10+. It just means they haven’t been quite good enough to get a really good job. When was the last time a Wake revenue sport coach left for a better job? It’s been multiple generations.
 
macktheknife said:
Never forget Grobe was left with a bevy of good players. Clawson inherited nothing and turned us into a competitive football team. So stop the nonsense.
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I don't think the majority are questioning Clawson being our head coach. I think a good number are questioning his management of the team and the QB situation in 2023. It was bizarre. Unfocused IMHO.
 
TheAbster said:
I don't think the majority are questioning Clawson being our head coach. I think a good number are questioning his management of the team and the QB situation in 2023. It was bizarre. Unfocused IMHO.
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Nuanced arguments have no place on a sports message board, away with you apostate.
 
macktheknife said:
Never forget Grobe was left with a bevy of good players. Clawson inherited nothing and turned us into a competitive football team. So stop the nonsense.
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Clawson started off with a pretty decent defense but not very much on offense.
 
Arsene Wenger said:
Realistically we don’t want a Grobe to be here for 13 years followed by a Clawson for 10+. It just means they haven’t been quite good enough to get a really good job. When was the last time a Wake revenue sport coach left for a better job? It’s been multiple generations.
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Maybe Machovic (sp?) for the NFL? Maybe I’m jaded but I don’t think there are more than 5 “retirement” jobs left in college football after the 2021 cycle. (Michigan, texas, Bama, USC, tOSU) and even if you’re at one of those - you always toy with the NFL.
 
Southern Cal ? Didn't their last successful coach bolt for the NFL ?
 
Biff Ochocinco Tannen said:
Southern Cal ? Didn't their last successful coach bolt for the NFL ?
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Hence why I said it’s a retirement job in the college ranks but you will toy with NFL. No coach leaves,on his own terms at least, Southern Cal for another college program.
 
Clawson knows as well as anyone that losing seasons, even at Wake, are unacceptable. He will get us back to where we need to be by 2025 or else he knows he's out. A further regression (I don't really know how that's possible) in 2024 and he's out.
 
I remember how frustrated I was after the 2006 championship that we got minimal boost in recruiting rankings (still remained a "developmental/overlooked/diamond-in-the-rough" destination, while a 3-9 UNC was able to recruit fairly well based on a number of recruits stating their desire to be a part of UNC's "turnaround".
Always has been more difficult at Wake, and far as I can tell will continue to be.
 
I don’t care how much we’re winning - we ain’t out-recruiting our flagship state school with the Jordan brand bs as much as I can’t stand them. And I’m okay with that- on paper - we are more like Richmond, Furman, W&L, Elon, Davidson, Wofford. We don’t have the endowment and research money and thus high rankings and prestige of a Vandy, NW, ND, Duke, and Stanford. We seem forever to be a tweener. Not really fair to compare us with UNC, UVA as those are research state schools. We have done less with more for a loooong time.

Why is our endowment so bad? IIRC- rumor was that it was badly mis-managed in 90’s and we missed out on that bull market and have been playing catch up ever since. To me- that’s what is holding us back in a lot of ways and no sliver bullet to change that no matter how many games we win, dollars Wake Will raises, or how much we expand.
 
DownEastDeac said:
I remember how frustrated I was after the 2006 championship that we got minimal boost in recruiting rankings (still remained a "developmental/overlooked/diamond-in-the-rough" destination, while a 3-9 UNC was able to recruit fairly well based on a number of recruits stating their desire to be a part of UNC's "turnaround".
Always has been more difficult at Wake, and far as I can tell will continue to be.
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But is that recruiting ranking boost based on people still turning down our offers? Or is it based on Grobe (and now Clawson) not even spending their time on those folks? My feeling is that it’s the latter. We should offer every 4 and 5 star in the country. When I look at 247 I don’t think I’ve ever seen us on a 5-star’s offer list.
 
maybe not directly but it’s a trickle down effect - we’re more dependent on tuition and donations to fund operating costs of the university. If endowment was stronger - more dollars could flow to athletics meaning endowment coaching positions and yes NIL.
 
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