Clawson by the numbers

[JKW385]

But is that recruiting ranking boost based on people still turning down our offers? Or is it based on Grobe (and now Clawson) not even spending their time on those folks? My feeling is that it’s the latter. We should offer every 4 and 5 star in the country. When I look at 247 I don’t think I’ve ever seen us on a 5-star’s offer list.

I think it goes back to my point that we’re a tweener. 4 and 5 star guys who look at academic schools are more likely to go to Duke, NW, Stanford or even Vandy than WF. Clawson has gotten more 4 star guys than Grobe ever got so that’s an improvement.

 

[deacdixieboy]

I think it goes back to my point that we’re a tweener. 4 and 5 star guys who look at academic schools are more likely to go to Duke, NW, Stanford or even Vandy than WF. Clawson has gotten more 4 star guys than Grobe ever got so that’s an improvement.

I hear you except that those guys also care about football and we’ve been better than all of those schools and certainly have better monetary and fan support.

 

[LilburnDeac]

I'm not sure of the value of comparing Clawson to previous head coaches. The real question we should be asking is- Is Dave Clawson the right head coach for Wake Forest football in 2024 and forward?

I would say that he was definitely the right coach to replace Grobe. And Grobe was the right coach to replace Caldwell. Grobe showed that you can win at Wake. He was the first Wake football coach to win 8+ games in multiple seasons (2006, 2007, 2008). Before Grobe, Wake had only won 8 games in a season 3 times (1944, 1979, 1992). Grobe is also the first Wake coach to lead a team to more than one bowl game (Seattle, Orange, Meineke, Military, Music City). Certainly much of that is due the increase in number of bowl games. Won the ACC Championship.

Clawson took over and he showed that you can build a consistent winner at Wake. He has had 7 winning seasons and 7 bowl games. Won 8+ games in 4 seasons. Won the Atlantic Division.

But in the past 2-3 years, thanks to the portal and NLI, college football has drastically changed. Now the question is whether or not Clawson is the right coach for Wake Forest football in this new era.

And I honestly don't know that he is. But he has earned the right to try.

 

[ProbationDeac]

Nobody is advocating for Clawson to be fired right now. But we should be paying attention and keep in mind the end of Grobe’s tenure. Grobe was useless for his final five seasons and left nothing for Clawson to work with for two seasons. So those were seven lost seasons. Realistically it became clear by 10 and 11 that Grobe wasn’t recapturing and remaking 2006-2008. We need to be paying attention and not let Clawson overstay his welcome if it becomes a similar situation. Our lack of clear eyed and rational thinking in hiring and firing over the course of decades has led us where we are today.

Go read the Clawson credibility thread., there aren't a lot of people but some.

Grobes finished with 5 straight losing seasons (1 bowl appearance 2011). Let's see how Clawson responds next year.

 

[JKW385]

I'm not sure of the value of comparing Clawson to previous head coaches. The real question we should be asking is- Is Dave Clawson the right head coach for Wake Forest football in 2024 and forward?

I would say that he was definitely the right coach to replace Grobe. And Grobe was the right coach to replace Caldwell. Grobe showed that you can win at Wake. He was the first Wake football coach to win 8+ games in multiple seasons (2006, 2007, 2008). Before Grobe, Wake had only won 8 games in a season 3 times (1944, 1979, 1992). Grobe is also the first Wake coach to lead a team to more than one bowl game (Seattle, Orange, Meineke, Military, Music City). Certainly much of that is due the increase in number of bowl games. Won the ACC Championship.

Clawson took over and he showed that you can build a consistent winner at Wake. He has had 7 winning seasons and 7 bowl games. Won 8+ games in 4 seasons. Won the Atlantic Division.

But in the past 2-3 years, thanks to the portal and NLI, college football has drastically changed. Now the question is whether or not Clawson is the right coach for Wake Forest football in this new era.

And I honestly don't know that he is. But he has earned the right to try.

As I posted previously, DC also coached in a much harder ACC than Grobe with significantly better coaches and talent. I would argue that ACC was much harder in the Caldwell administration than Grobe's era (Mack 1.0 at UNC, FSU with Bowden in his prime, UVA with Welsh, O'Leary at GT). Only "bad teams" in addition to WF were Duke and MD. State and Clemson were decent programs in 90's but not as good as they are now. Also, you didn't have the divisions and had to play everyone each year. Yeah, Grobe had Miami and VT- but Miami had already started to fall off and we only faced VT 4 times in this tenure IIRC and I believe Miami 5 times IIRC (2004, 2005, 2008, 2009, 2013). Is ACC harder now or during Caldwell administration? I'd say harder now mostly due to more teams and ascent of Clemson and State.

 

[deacdixieboy]

As I posted previously, DC also coached in a much harder ACC than Grobe with significantly better coaches and talent. I would argue that ACC was much harder in the Caldwell administration than Grobe's era (Mack 1.0 at UNC, FSU with Bowden in his prime, UVA with Welsh, O'Leary at GT). Only "bad teams" in addition to WF were Duke and MD. State and Clemson were decent programs in 90's but not as good as they are now. Also, you didn't have the divisions and had to play everyone each year. Yeah, Grobe had Miami and VT- but Miami had already started to fall off and we only faced VT 4 times in this tenure IIRC and I believe Miami 5 times IIRC (2004, 2005, 2008, 2009, 2013). Is ACC harder now or during Caldwell administration? I'd say harder now mostly due to more teams and ascent of Clemson and State.

BC was also good during Grobe’s tenure.

 

[JKW385]

BC was also good during Grobe’s tenure.

Agreed but think league was still harder- maybe more top heavy- in the 90's. League was more balanced in Grobe era but we were able to be competitive with the more talented teams (FSU, VT, Miami, NC State) due to good coaching and "diamond in the rough" guys.

 

[thatguy2016]

Agreed but think league was still harder- maybe more top heavy- in the 90's. League was more balanced in Grobe era but we were able to be competitive with the more talented teams (FSU, VT, Miami, NC State) due to good coaching and "diamond in the rough" guys.

For what it's worth, the Sports Reference "SRS" value referenced by doofus earlier is shown by conference.

Average ACC rating in SRS for the tenures of recent WF coaches:

Dave Clawson	4.41​
Jim Grobe	4.65​
Jim Caldwell	3.23​
Bill Dooley	4.10​
Al Groh	4.31​

so according to SRS, the ACC was, on average, basically a wash between the Grobe and Clawson years.

 

[JKW385]

For what it's worth, the Sports Reference "SRS" value referenced by doofus earlier is shown by conference.

Average ACC rating in SRS for the tenures of recent WF coaches:

Dave Clawson	4.41​
Jim Grobe	4.65​
Jim Caldwell	3.23​
Bill Dooley	4.10​
Al Groh	4.31​

so according to SRS, the ACC was, on average, basically a wash between the Grobe and Clawson years.

Point taken but it's much more fun to debate it rather than rely on analytics

 

[Jroc25]

I assume Dave gives the RTQ board/committee a ranking of player positions. Similar to how Forbes ranks all the players before the season. Let's hope the football player rankings are correct then. RTQ money should weed out underperformers and reward performers, which doesn't sound like a bad thing. Anyway, Clawson's rankings for the RTQ board are some numbers that really matter.

 

[DEACDAVIS]

I'm just trying to highlight the one ignoramus on here that keeps saying he would be okay if Clawson is fired.

 

[thatguy2016]

Point taken but it's much more fun to debate it rather than rely on analytics

debate away! consider the analytics a data point - certainly not the definitive answer.