Conference Expansion: Stanford, California and SMU Join the ACC

[PhDeac]

We live in a capitalist society. If there is an opportunity to make money it doesn’t usually get left on the table. So if it’s the players that are generating all of the value that universities have been pocketing why hasn’t some entrepreneur come along and started a league for basketball and football that is between the college level and the upper professional levels. Surely they could pay the players and have a lot of profit for themselves. To the degree that these leagues do exist why aren’t players going to them en masse?

The value is generated because the athletes are playing for universities that have excellent brands. People watch college athletics even though it’s not at the same skill level as the professionals. Many prefer watching it vs the professional game. If the top players weren’t playing college ball the colleges would be just fine financially.

Those brands have been built by not paying athletes. You're also not accounting for structural factors that account for this advantage college football has. The NFL is the only top professional league that does not draft athletes out of high school. The NFL has no minor league or direct competition and American football is only played in a few other countries.

By comparison, we've seen college basketball lose prominence once high school players started declaring for the draft, even after the one-year rule was instituted. Now top players can play overseas, go to the G-League Ignite, or chose Overtime Elite or other options.

We have other direct comparisons that show colleges would not be "just fine" if the top players didn't play. College baseball isn't "just fine" because the top players play in the minors and some make it to MLB in their first three years. Other sports like tennis and golf in which top players go pro doesn't compete with lower level pro tours.

 

[Colonel Angus]

What does work ethic have to do with anything?

 

[The Mangler]

Those brands have been built by not paying athletes. You're also not accounting for structural factors that account for this advantage college football has. The NFL is the only top professional league that does not draft athletes out of high school. The NFL has no minor league or direct competition and American football is only played in a few other countries.

By comparison, we've seen college basketball lose prominence once high school players started declaring for the draft, even after the one-year rule was instituted. Now top players can play overseas, go to the G-League Ignite, or chose Overtime Elite or other options.

We have other direct comparisons that show colleges would not be "just fine" if the top players didn't play. College baseball isn't "just fine" because the top players play in the minors and some make it to MLB in their first three years. Other sports like tennis and golf in which top players go pro doesn't compete with lower level pro tours.

My point was if the NCAA has been making billions of dollars at the expense of the players, why wouldn’t someone create a minor league for football, pay the players, and still make a profit?



Is college basketball making less money than it did before athletes starting going pro early or skipping college altogether?

 

[PhDeac]

Yes, and I addressed that point. Such minor leagues and pro options exist in other sports. There are plenty of reasons why alternatives in football don't exist. You're trying to oversimply it by saying college football programs have some massive value in themselves. No. The value is mainly due to structural factors that may it difficult to establish alternate pro football leagues. Without those same structural concerns other sports have pro alternatives.

 

[Deaconblue]

Football is way more expensive in terms of player uniform and equipment. In addition, the practice equipment (blocking sled, tackling dummy etc.) is also not cheap. Hence, why most start up football leagues go broke in a few years or less.

College alums won't fund random minor league football. NFL could do what major league baseball does for minor league baseball but they won't as long as colleges do it and pay for it.

 

[Biff Tannen]

Startup football leagues go bankrupt because of the cost of equipment ? is that what you're saying ?

 

[thatguy2016]

Cal is sad (and broke)

 

[redwing42]

Startup football leagues go bankrupt because of the cost of equipment ? is that what you're saying ?

Don't be dense. He is saying that overhead in football is significantly higher than in other sports. The equipment is just part of it.

 

[awaken]

College football pre-dates pro football. That is why their structures are so well established. When the pro league is older (baseball), then there are more alternatives to college and college has fewer structural advantages.

 

[Biff Tannen]

Don't be dense. He is saying that overhead in football is significantly higher than in other sports. The equipment is just part of it.

Don't be dense. They know the cost of shoulder pads going in. They go broke because they don't generate enough revenue.

 

[deacondamo]

It’s no coincidence that the push to pay athletes has increased as the value of a bachelors degree has decreased and income and wealth inequality have increased.

Has the value of a bachelor's degree "decreased"? Tons of informations suggests that competition to be admitted to the top 50 universities is as strong as ever. Maybe the value of a University of Phoenix degree has decreased, but the tops schools are as competitive as ever.

 

[PhDeac]

Has the value of a bachelor's degree "decreased"? Tons of informations suggests that competition to be admitted to the top 50 universities is as strong as ever. Maybe the value of a University of Phoenix degree has decreased, but the tops schools are as competitive as ever.

The more people who get a bachelor's degree, the less value it becomes as a credential in the workplace. 37.9% of adults age 25 or older have a bachelor's degree, up from only 17% in 1980. Not only that much the value of having a bachelor's degree after playing college sports has decreased as well because there are so many more sports programs at all levels.

Not taking into account all the evidence of the declining value of a bachelor's degree, your post supports the declining value. If a product declines in value, getting the premium version of that product is that much more important.

 

[deacon14]

The more people who get a bachelor's degree, the less value it becomes as a credential in the workplace. 37.9% of adults age 25 or older have a bachelor's degree, up from only 17% in 1980. Not only that much the value of having a bachelor's degree after playing college sports has decreased as well because there are so many more sports programs at all levels.

Not taking into account all the evidence of the declining value of a bachelor's degree, your post supports the declining value. If a product declines in value, getting the premium version of that product is that much more important.

How many jobs exist now where a bachelor's degree is (reasonably) needed? A greater percentage of people have a bachelor's degree now compared to 1980, but I'd also argue a greater percentage of available jobs require a bachelor's degree. The amount of blue-collar jobs hasn't increased since 1980, but jobs in fields such as tech that would require that additional education certainly have increased in number.

 

[Pilchard]

Is PhDeac really arguing that a bachelor's degree from a 4 year college isn't worth much? Is he sharing that news with college students?

 

[PhDeac]

How many jobs exist now where a bachelor's degree is (reasonably) needed? A greater percentage of people have a bachelor's degree now compared to 1980, but I'd also argue a greater percentage of available jobs require a bachelor's degree. The amount of blue-collar jobs hasn't increased since 1980, but jobs in fields such as tech that would require that additional education certainly have increased in number.

A greater percentage of jobs require a bachelor's degree which is one factor propelling the need to have one.

Pilch, yes I talk with my students about the declining value of bachelor's degrees. They already know that and it's why many of them are in or planning to go to grad school.

I don't know why I need to explain this but when something is less valuable, you need to get more of it or a "better" version of it in order to get the same value it had before. A dollar is less valuable than it was in 1980 but people don't stop wanting dollars. They want more dollars.

 

[Biff Tannen]

He just let's them know they should have gone to more prestigious schools.

 

[Biff Tannen]

A greater percentage of jobs require a bachelor's degree which is one factor propelling the need to have one.

Pilch, yes I talk with my students about the declining value of bachelor's degrees. They already know that and it's why many of them are in or planning to go to grad school.

I don't know why I need to explain this but when something is less valuable, you need to get more of it or a "better" version of it in order to get the same value it had before. A dollar is less valuable than it was in 1980 but people don't stop wanting dollars. They want more dollars.

Using currency in this analogy is pretty far off base as it's what we use to measure value. You're talking more about utility.

 

[BeachBumDeac]

Is PhDeac really arguing that a bachelor's degree from a 4 year college isn't worth much?

it's not worth as much as it was 40 years ago. You need to graduate school and get a higher degree for a lot of jobs that you could've done with a bachelor's degree a few decades ago.

 

[thatguy2016]

gonna be a long wait for Notre Dame to decide

 

[Pilchard]

gonna be a long wait for Notre Dame to decide

When Notre Dame's TV contract with NBC ends after the the 2025 season (four seasons from now), they are going to have TV Networks and streaming services throwing ridiculous sums of money at them as, with conference consolidation, there are now more viewing platforms than there are available purveyors of power football. Notre Dame will be able to negotiate an annual football only payment that is far more than even the Big 10 can offer. There are now more broadcast options (with money) than ever before. Amazon is now paying the NFL $1 billion a year to televise just Thursday night games. Not a stretch to think that ND will get offers of 10%+ of that for ND's home football games and related football content. Such a move would also allow ND to keep its independent status in football (and control its schedule), while also receiving the benefit of playing in the ACC conference for all of its other sports.

Just don't see ND giving up all of that money and control so that it can be treated the same as Purdue and Indiana. ND will stay independent.