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Conference Expansion: Stanford, California and SMU Join the ACC

BiffTannen said:
Yeah, how’s that research partnership between Wake and Va Tech going, btw ?
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From the medical school side of things, it's still going. I teach human anatomy to VT Biomedical Engineering students every spring here at the school.
 
Arizona and Duke agreed to a home and home hoop series starting in November/December 2023. Duke basketball rarely plays road OOC games. except for the ACC/Big 10 Challenge game every other year. This could be part of the plan to strengthen the ties between the ACC and Pac 12. Can't wait for the buzz for the WF/Wazzu home and home.
 
Pilchard said:
Arizona and Duke agreed to a home and home hoop series starting in November/December 2023. Duke basketball rarely plays road OOC games. except for the ACC/Big 10 Challenge game every other year. This could be part of the plan to strengthen the ties between the ACC and Pac 12. Can't wait for the buzz for the WF/Wazzu home and home.
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Agree on your last point, but especially after last year, we need all the big conference games we can get. If a result of all this shuffling (and fear thereof) leads to better out-of-conference competition, that is a good thing.
 
The ACC shouldn't chase football and focus on academics.
 
PhDeac said:
The ACC shouldn't chase football and focus on academics.
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In a 2011 interview with the Durham-based Indy Week the year before he died at 92, Friday provided a final warning that echoes loudly now: “We are trying to superimpose an entertainment industry on top of an academic structure, and it won’t work. It never has worked. What you are seeing on the college scene right now is the consequence of not controlling that very enterprise.” The ACC will try to remake itself to stay in the big-time football game. But its best course may be to go back to its roots. Focus on basketball. Stress academic quality. Quit the arms race of ever-bigger facilities and ever-higher paid coaches. Maybe the top ACC football schools will leave the conference, but what may come back is football in proper proportion. Few ACC schools will ever be good enough to beat Alabama or Ohio State for a national title and it’s only going to get harder. The ACC should invest in its strengths, not its weaknesses. “The time has come for the conference to decide which way this conference will be identified in the future,” Friday said in that Indy Week interview a decade ago. “I would hope, fervently hope, that our conference would lead the way,” he said. “This is a group of very fine institutions. They know what to do, they know how to do it, and it’s just a matter of taking that first step.”

Read more at: https://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/article263615963.html#storylink=cpy
 
The problem with that argument is that the vast majority of SEC and Big Ten teams will also never be good enough to beat Alabama or Ohio State for national title, but they leveraged the success of those programs to get huge TV contracts. The ACC didn't do the same with the success of FSU and Clemson.
 
Academics and Basketball is all fun and games until you realize that the Big Ten and SEC will also be able to pour even more money into their basketball programs - Rutgers currently makes more from their GOR than the entire Big East.
 
w84it said:
Academics and Basketball is all fun and games until you realize that the Big Ten and SEC will also be able to pour even more money into their basketball programs - Rutgers currently makes more from their GOR than the entire Big East.
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Yeah, money is important, but most of those Big East schools, even without Rutgers money, have better basketball programs. Will be interesting to see how things develop, but the 4 teams that made the Final 4 this past season (Kansas, UNC, Nova and Duke) are all basketball first programs with limited football revenue. The year before it was Baylor, Gonzaga, Houston, and UCLA. Again, all, with the possible exception of Baylor are basketball first schools (and Baylor may be a basketball first school and Baylor doesn't receive the SEC/Big 10 money windfall). Maybe, over time the football money will be so overwhelming that the footballs schools will dominate basketball because of their cash edge, but that isn't the trend now. It appears that basketball first schools don't suffer in the current football = money environment. FWIW, the Big 10 in general is laughable. Understand all of those schools are swimming in cash. Good for them, but outside of tOSU football, it's hilarious and pathetic the lack of impact that money has had on the quality of Big 10 play in every sport. Is the Big 10 a power in anything? Michigan was embarrassed in the CFP. They have been the most underperforming conference, by a mile, in basketball (including women's basketball). I know the other sports don't matter, but with limited exceptions (maybe Maryland Lax), the Big 10 disappoints in everything.
 
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Pilchard said:
Yeah, money is important, but most of those Big East schools, even without Rutgers money, have better basketball programs. Will be interesting to see how things develop, but the 4 teams that made the Final 4 this past season (Kansas, UNC, Nova and Duke) are all basketball first programs with limited football revenue. The year before it was Baylor, Gonzaga, Houston, and UCLA. Again, all, with the possible exception of Baylor are basketball first schools (and Baylor may be a basketball first school). Maybe, over time the football money will be so overwhelming that the footballs schools will dominate because of their cash edge, but that isn't the trend now. It appears that basketball first schools don't suffer in the current football = money environment.
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The change happens when schools start paying the players directly which will come eventually. Right now the money has an impact but I think it's overstated how much it matters currently. There are only so many facility upgrades and support staff hires you can make. Everything changes when Rutgers is able to allocate $15M to pay the basketball team and Villanova can only afford to pay $3M.
 
Pilchard said:
Yeah, money is important, but most of those Big East schools, even without Rutgers money, have better basketball programs. Will be interesting to see how things develop, but the 4 teams that made the Final 4 this past season (Kansas, UNC, Nova and Duke) are all basketball first programs with limited football revenue. The year before it was Baylor, Gonzaga, Houston, and UCLA. Again, all, with the possible exception of Baylor are basketball first schools (and Baylor may be a basketball first school and Baylor doesn't receive the SEC/Big 10 money windfall). Maybe, over time the football money will be so overwhelming that the footballs schools will dominate basketball because of their cash edge, but that isn't the trend now. It appears that basketball first schools don't suffer in the current football = money environment. FWIW, the Big 10 in general is laughable. Understand all of those schools are swimming in cash. Good for them, but outside of tOSU football, it's hilarious and pathetic the lack of impact that money has had on the quality of Big 10 play in every sport. Is the Big 10 a power in anything? Michigan was embarrassed in the CFP. They have been the most underperforming conference, by a mile, in basketball (including women's basketball). I know the other sports don't matter, but with limited exceptions (maybe Maryland Lax), the Big 10 disappoints in everything.
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surprising that a KP devotee such as yourself runs down B1G basketball in that way

they have, no question, underachieved in the NCAA tournament, but KP has rated that conference #1 5 of the last 12 years, including 2 of the last 3 (the Big XII has been #1 7 of the last 12 and 8 of the last 13; the SEC and ACC have combined for zero top ratings from KP over the last 15 years)
 
I don't know all the ins and outs of this, but I would think (and maybe they are and maybe someone has already discussed this) that the ACC would be lobbying for more TV money from ESPN
I know they have a long term contract and without ESPN's agreement there isn't much they can do, but, if in a few years, the big name teams leave, that media contract might be more of a dud for ESPN. I'd think the ACC could get more money from ESPN in exchange for all the schools to agree to a bigger exit fee, thus (theoretically) sustaining the ACC in tact
 
Fair point on KP rankings. Agree that NCAAT's one and done format often skew perspectives as compared to results over an entire season, but with the cumulative results over several seasons, the Big 10's struggles in the NCAAT are both undeniable and can be fairly attributed to a conference-wide failure. The Big 10 hasn't won an NCAAT in more than 22 years. The ACC has 8 (5 current ACC programs have won an NCAAT since the Big 10's last). Feel like that reflects more than just the Big 10 has had some tough tourney luck, especially considering the point related to this thread that the Big 10 and SEC will dominate all sports because of their money edge.
 
Over the last 10 NCAA tournaments, here are Final 4's by conference:

ACC 7
B1G 7
SEC 6
B12 6

Over the last 20:
ACC 14
B1G 13
Big East 13
Big 12 12
SEC 10

Over the last 30:
ACC 24
B1G 22
SEC 19
 
Baconwfu said:
I don't know all the ins and outs of this, but I would think (and maybe they are and maybe someone has already discussed this) that the ACC would be lobbying for more TV money from ESPN
I know they have a long term contract and without ESPN's agreement there isn't much they can do, but, if in a few years, the big name teams leave, that media contract might be more of a dud for ESPN. I'd think the ACC could get more money from ESPN in exchange for all the schools to agree to a bigger exit fee, thus (theoretically) sustaining the ACC in tact
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ESPN isn’t going to just pay more for something they already own. The GOR sustains the ACC already.
 
Here are the last 21 Champions by conference:

ACC: 8
Big East: 5
SEC: 3
Big 12: 3
AAC: 1
Big 10: 0

If you want to claim that the Big 10 has performed up to its purported reputation, go right ahead. Again, the context is that the Big 10 has an advantage over all others because of its revenues. The results say otherwise.

Also, you can be selective about Final 4 participation based on how far your go back. The big 10 has had only two final 4 teams over the last 6 tournaments, and one team in the Final game since 2015.
 
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