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Country Dan's Version of the Debacle @ Clemson
- Thread starter tbird
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myDeaconmyhand
First man to get a team of horses up Bear Mountain
Strick?
Strickland33
Well-known member
Look, man. I watched the game. I don't know if you did. I've watched, with three or four exceptions, every game that we've played since Jeff [Redacted] got here.
In terms of Jeff [Redacted]'s defenses, we were executing our rotations on the perimeter. They were hitting some really contested jump shots. They definitely had open looks, too, but that's par for the course on a Jeff [Redacted] team. Most posters were saying that they were hitting some impossible jump shots, I was the only one who went as far as to say that our defense looked good. The comment was also motivated by the fact that I'm not sure they got much in the way of anything open inside in the first half.
It might be a stupid comment (In hindsight, I think it is) and I'll be happy to concede that point, but what's your point on this thread? Do you disagree with what I've posted here? If so, then what do you disagree on? I feel like I've adequately summarized my position and substantiated it...
But, in any event: great contribution to the thread. I live my everyday life with the ultimate goal of walking in your e-footsteps.
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Kevin O'Neill says hello.....
jaybone
Well-known member
We'll have to table this conversation until next year. I thought Devin was heavily undervalued coming out of high school having seen him play, but I thought his offensive game would be more refined. He played with his back to the basket most of the time the game I saw him in high school, but on reflection, he'd pivot to face the basket and he's got a quick first step (as he showed against Clemson). He didn't have to post up. Anyway, my point is that I think he was incredibly undervalued coming out of high school. It probably is unfair to compare him to Big E, but not quite fair to compare him to Vytas/Visser either.
So let's just table this until next year. The Tony C thing just set me off because he is by far the most frustrating Deacon to watch play basketball in my entire life. Goolesby frustrated me because he was so streaky but it doesn't come close. I just couldn't stand watching Tony C and JTT play and the thought of 2 and 3 more years of both of them depressed me. I am very sorry for Tony the stuff at home that played a strong role in why he left, but happy as fuck he's not in a Wake uniform. End of story. His fast break turnovers, that final block against GTech all of it was just such a train wreck.
CMM is fun to watch, even when he's going for 5pts a game. He'll be a double-digit scorer next year - it's just a matter of FG% and A/T ratio that will define how efficient he is as a sophmore. But it seems pretty obvious he's deferring to CJ and trying to figure his role in our offense.
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My favorite part was where you flew off the handle and called me a fucking idiot over PM, and then negrepped me with essentially the same comment.
My point is that you've been known to staunchly defend what others might perceive to be irrational opinions in the past.
myDeaconmyhand
First man to get a team of horses up Bear Mountain
I bet he wishes he had installed a "new culture" to excuse his shitty coaching.
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Remember when he had the interim coach tag at Arizona and was supposed to be Lute Olson's long term replacement? They figured out within months that he was Bzzz-bad, and jettisoned him in a hurry. Wish people on our end had the stones to do that.
Strickland33
Well-known member
I agree completely.
Again, the only reason that I used Vytas was to give Devin the benefit of the doubt. Like you, I think he was underrated. At best, though, he was borderline top-100 rather than borderline top-25.
That was my only thing. I actually think Visser is a good comparison (top 25 C and three-star prospect), but it's a little bleak. Viss never got decent PT (despite actually taking a huge step forward in terms of productivity as a sophomore) or comparable possessions (Devin gets 2x more touches now than Viss saw in three years at Wake)
Strickland33
Well-known member
I didn't staunchly defend the point and I haven't now.
As for the PM/neg rep, I'll only say this: if you weren't wasted already in what would be the worst afternoon in Wake Forest sports history, then I don't know what to tell you. I have no idea how the rest of that day, post ND massacre, went down.
That being said, I apologize for my language. Completely out of line and uncalled for on my end.
I don't apologize for neg-repping you then or now, though.
As for both of our bodies of work, I would contend that at your point's best (see the quotation), you're calling the kettle black. :thumbsup:
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No hard feelings. I figured you were on a drunk bender that night. IIRC the interaction went down around 1AM.
Nobody should ever apologize for negrep. I negrep the shit out of stupid posts.
DCDeac
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I will say I appreciate the effort Strick puts in. Obviously cares a lot about Wake sports, as does anyone else still posting hundreds of times about actual technical aspects of our play on the court over the past few years. It's been tough to sit through. At least this year I haven't physically thrown anything at my TV yet. Watching Ari and JTT play "basketball" almost cost me a flatscreen.
jaybone
Well-known member
I see where you are coming from. I am sure I factor in "like to watch play" more than I should. I like to watch everyone on our team play. Travis can frustrate me, and CJ makes some awful turnovers, and I am sure those types of frustrations will add up with some of the young guys that haven't played enough games for me to get annoyed at them;-).
I was a huge Chase defender on here last year mostly specific to RJ, but he is freaking me out this year with his turnovers and streaky play. When I see his 3-pt% I am shocked because not looking at the numbers I would guess he's shooting 25%. Surprised to see him shooting over 40%. Maybe he'll put it together, but he seems to pass when he should shoot and shoot when he should pass when he gets inside the 3-point line (he had a nice 2pt shot against Clemson however!).
As bad as Devin looked on offense against Duke particularly in the 1st half and the drops he had against UVa, he looked good against a tough and experienced Clemson defender (though to be fair, I think Booker was a bit hobbled by something, the flu? an ankle?)
myDeaconmyhand
First man to get a team of horses up Bear Mountain
I was so traumatized by the 2010 season I must have repressed it because I can't remember anything except for JTT's buzzer beater over Iowa. I'm probably being especially hard on this team to avoid lowering my standards for Wake basketball. I wanted to be pumped about beating UVA and BC but I held myself back because I knew we were still bad enough to get embarrassed, and then Clemson embarrassed us.
jaybone
Well-known member
That play was on Bzd by the way. I thought it was stupid to put Andre on the ball. He was bound to pump faked. Pack the freakin lane man
Strickland33
Well-known member
It was one of the more questionable calls that I think he's had as a coach here, which is saying something. I don't get surprised by any of our playing or coaching lapses these days, but that one was just ridiculously. Those guys were obviously freakishly athletic at three positions. Why would you tempt fate, Buzz?
"Again, the only reason that I used Vytas was to give Devin the benefit of the doubt. Like you, I think he was underrated. At best, though, he was borderline top-100 rather than borderline top-25. "
Vytas solidly in RSCI Top 100 at about 80-85. Scout had him near the Top 50.
Vytas solidly in RSCI Top 100 at about 80-85. Scout had him near the Top 50.
For the record, I didn't compare CMM and Madison to Ish and Teague. Simply stated next year will be the first time we've had 2 capable non freshman-PGs since those two.
I also think putting Washington on the passer wasn't a terrible idea. He was more likely to get lost trying to guard a man than standing in front of the passer. Refs missed a 5 sec call and probably an illegal screen, but still, that shouldn't have happened. I don't disapprove of a tall and long player guarding the inbounder. It just didn't work.
I think Devin will average 10 pts and 9 boards the rest of the season. He's starting to look very comfortable out there. I thought he got jobbed on several of those foul calls and that won't happen every game.
I also think putting Washington on the passer wasn't a terrible idea. He was more likely to get lost trying to guard a man than standing in front of the passer. Refs missed a 5 sec call and probably an illegal screen, but still, that shouldn't have happened. I don't disapprove of a tall and long player guarding the inbounder. It just didn't work.
I think Devin will average 10 pts and 9 boards the rest of the season. He's starting to look very comfortable out there. I thought he got jobbed on several of those foul calls and that won't happen every game.
Turd Ferguson
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Which games did you like watching our players play the most? Was it vs: Iona (L 94-68), Nebraska (L 79-63), the Seton Hall collapse, keeping it under 3 touchdowns against Duke AND Clemson? Or maybe our moral victories against UConn and A-10 power Richmond? Or our super bowl victories against perennial ACC powers Boston College and Virginia?