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CROOKED Hilary

jhmd2000 said:
How about you respond to what I wrote instead? I don't like Hillary because she is a liar.
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Because its nonsense? I get that you get all giddy down there when somebody pulls out the bootstraps narrative, but there is already a party that appeals to that dialogue.
 
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jhmd2000 said:
How about you respond to what I wrote instead? I don't like Hillary because she is a liar.
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Well she may be a liar for other reasons, but it's not lying just because she says something you disagree with.

I guess put another way: if, hypothetically, the system is stacked against people due to their race or gender do you believe the government has any sort of obligation or duty to the public to address the systemic bias that exists? It seems we've gotten to the point where overt discrimination isn't okay (disparate treatment) but unintended consequences (sometimes simply couched as "unintended" where there is actually an intent behind it) don't need to be addressed (disparate impact).
 
Wakeforest22890 said:
Well she may be a liar for other reasons, but it's not lying just because she says something you disagree with.

I guess put another way: if, hypothetically, the system is stacked against people due to their race or gender do you believe the government has any sort of obligation or duty to the public to address the systemic bias that exists? It seems we've gotten to the point where overt discrimination isn't okay (disparate treatment) but unintended consequences (sometimes simply couched as "unintended" where there is actually an intent behind it) don't need to be addressed (disparate impact).
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As a newly minted attorney, I know that you are very familiar with the concept of causation. Do you think the 24 year old grandmother* with an eighth grade education is held back by systemic racism, or some other factor? Speaking of strawmen, I'll be happy to acknowledge that neither the system nor life is fair, but my point is let's hone our dialogue and policies in on the primary causal factors, and work our way down the list. Running around telling lies about what the government can/will do (spoiler alert: it just never does, no matter how often it is repeated), or blaming the system or other people "not paying their fair share" isn't a solution. You can't fix other people's feelings, much as we might aspire to. We can do a lot with our policies to restore the building blocks of upward mobility, which is why I am a Republican.

* Note carefully that this question only volunteers her gender.
 
24 year old grandmotheres: the newest monster out there tearing up the constitution and taking away your goddamn freedom. go get 'em and take away their shit to incentivise them to get a goddamn job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
ChrisL68 said:
It's a strawman because nobody is, or has, argued the other side.

But jhmd likes to pretend that people have, or are, arguing the other side, and that he is posting some revelation.
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You are arguing the other side by default if you don't have the balls to criticize people for failing to take personal responsibility in their lives....especially since you are doing exactly that with your own life. Evidently, you consider personal responsibility to be an important factor in your own well-being...but you don't have the balls to criticize people who are not taking personal responsibility in their lives. That fear of social rejection for daring to get out of the liberal PC line is enormous.
 
bobknightfan said:
You are arguing the other side by default if you don't have the balls to criticize people for failing to take personal responsibility in their lives....especially since you are doing exactly that with your own life. Evidently, you consider personal responsibility to be an important factor in your own well-being...but you don't have the balls to criticize people who are not taking personal responsibility in their lives. That fear of social rejection for daring to get out of the liberal PC line is enormous and it actually hurts people in the long run, when we tell them feel-good lies instead.
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I would only add...
 
jhmd2000 said:
I would only add...
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We have a bunch of social PC eunuchs on this board who are scared shitless of straying from the company line for fear of social rejection from their peers.

Do they think that you & I agree on everything? Hell no, we don't....but these guys are gutless hypocrites who are deathly afraid to speak out against anything that strays from their accepted group-speak.
 
bobknightfan said:
We have a bunch of social PC eunuchs on this board who are scared shitless of straying from the company line for fear of social rejection from their peers.

Do they think that you & I agree on everything? Hell no, we don't....but these guys are gutless hypocrites who are deathly afraid to speak out against anything that strays from their accepted group-speak.
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Old man wants to yell at poor people. Thinks it is the only solution.

Don't you claim to support Bernie? Don't you claim to have supported Dean? Do you know what anyone is talking about here?

http://www.ontheissues.org/2016/Bernie_Sanders_Welfare_+_Poverty.htm
 
bobknightfan said:
We have a bunch of social PC eunuchs on this board who are scared shitless of straying from the company line for fear of social rejection from their peers.

Do they think that you & I agree on everything? Hell no, we don't....but these guys are gutless hypocrites who are deathly afraid to speak out against anything that strays from their accepted group-speak.
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And what's worse, some of them like soccer. It's just so sad all the way around.
 
bobknightfan said:
You are arguing the other side by default if you don't have the balls to criticize people for failing to take personal responsibility in their lives....especially since you are doing exactly that with your own life. Evidently, you consider personal responsibility to be an important factor in your own well-being...but you don't have the balls to criticize people who are not taking personal responsibility in their lives. That fear of social rejection for daring to get out of the liberal PC line is enormous.
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Doubling down on the strawman I see.
 
You'd think people who gaf about personal responsibility would be in favor of massive lead abatement programs since the element shreds people's impulse control. Instead they're conducting mass lead poisonings.
 
Shooshmoo said:
Old man wants to yell at poor people. Thinks it is the only solution.

Don't you claim to support Bernie? Don't you claim to have supported Dean? Do you know what anyone is talking about here?
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I still support Bernie and I still support Dean. And I support public assistance where needed. As I said, jhmd & I disagree on many things. That doesn't have one thing to do with having the balls to criticize someone for failing to take personal responsibility in their lives. Being poor isn't a justification for a 72% illegitimacy rate. Do you think all poor people in this country are black? Well, I have news for you. Not all poor people have a 72% illegitimacy rate. The problem you & the other eunuchs on this board have is that you don't have the balls to criticize irresponsible black behavior for fear of being labeled a racist. So you just keep looking for a scapegoat somewhere to avoid having to face that problem. And there are plenty of options out there, because there are many things that are not right, not fair and need to be changed. However, that doesn't mean you need to be scared shitless to criticize examples of irresponsible black behavior.....but you're not going to do it. So you condone it with your silence.
 
Can John Ruskin change the title to "Hillary". As a former spelling bee champion of my school, it bugs me. If he did it on purpose, that's as stupid as Michigan fans calling Ohio State "Ohio".
 
You're arguing with yourself again, Bob. I have no problem criticizing irresponsible behavior -- not sure why we got to "irrresponsible black behavior", so please go on, but I assume as a supporter of Dean and Bernie you might be a believer in institutional racism.
 
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS IMPORTANT, HAVING TWO PARENTS IS IMPORTANT, NOT HAVING A KID IS IMPORTANT, STAYING IN SCHOOL IS IMPORTANT, PEOPLE THAT DON'T DO THESE THINGS ARE FUCKING AWFUL, SOME OF THIS IS BECAUSE OF SYSTEMS BUT MAJORITY IS SELF CHOICE- All of Ogboards

Now that all of that is covered the question become what do you do when these things are not done because well its the real world.
 
ThinkingWithMyDeac said:
PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY IS IMPORTANT, HAVING TWO PARENTS IS IMPORTANT, NOT HAVING A KID IS IMPORTANT, STAYING IN SCHOOL IS IMPORTANT, PEOPLE THAT DON'T DO THESE THINGS ARE FUCKING AWFUL, SOME OF THIS IS BECAUSE OF SYSTEMS BUT MAJORITY IS SELF CHOICE- All of Ogboards

Now that all of that is covered the question become what do you do when these things are not done because well its the real world.
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The answer you will receive is: stay in school, don't have kids as a teen, and be a two-parent household. Oh and "accept responsibility for your own community before asking others to help"
 
Shooshmoo said:
You're arguing with yourself again, Bob. I have no problem criticizing irresponsible behavior -- not sure why we got to "irrresponsible black behavior", so please go on, but I assume as a supporter of Dean and Bernie you might be a believer in institutional racism.
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7/22/64: Dear Diary, today I wrote a letter to my Congressman extolling the virtues of a truly integrated society. Note to self: in 52 years I will change this to "truly integrated society only if irresponsible black communities first accept responsibility themselves. Otherwise sorry." Oh, and personal responsibility rocks!
 
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