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Cultural capitalism sucks

or to use TOMS Shoes as an example (from the cultural capitalism angle disregarding other issues with the company):

- buying TOMS is a good thing in the sense that a need is being met and one is purchasing from TOMS rather than a blatant sweat shop made shoe.
- buying TOMS is a bad thing because it gives the false sense to the consumer that they have actually done something to alleviate the problem, thus enabling them to not look at underlying issues and leaving the structure of the oppressive system intact.
 
TownieDeac said:
Both, which is vexing and paradoxical.

I'm sad because pragmatically and practically and in every sense of the real world we live in, Whole Foods does things right. For that I want to see them succeed. Practically speaking, if they went under, access to good, responsibly sourced food would drop for many people in America, and the companies prepared to step in would be a Wal-Mart type store that does everything wrong. That's sad on an easy to understand level, even if you disagree with me, at least you know what I mean.
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I don't think that is the case at all. The people who shop at Whole Foods aren't going to suddenly head to WalMart to load up on rotten Asian megafarmed produce. They are hipsters and yuppies and soccer moms who go there as much for the image of being there (and telling others that they shop there) as they do for the products. They just move along to the next-best image-focused establishment like Fresh Market or Earthfare or whatever. They'll find their alternate place to go to buy the same stuff, and the people who are already shopping at WalMart aren't going to be affected at all.
 
Toms doesn't give shoes away as they state?

RE: Whole Foods - You don't see their stores in the inner-city or less affluent areas. They also seem to spend a lot of money on real estate and FFE. I think their snobbishness is a problem.
 
Where does Trader Joe's figure into all this? It's a much bigger player in that market than a decade ago.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I don't think that is the case at all. The people who shop at Whole Foods aren't going to suddenly head to WalMart to load up on rotten Asian megafarmed produce. They are hipsters and yuppies and soccer moms who go there as much for the image of being there (and telling others that they shop there) as they do for the products. They just move along to the next-best image-focused establishment like Fresh Market or Earthfare or whatever. They'll find their alternate place to go to buy the same stuff, and the people who are already shopping at WalMart aren't going to be affected at all.
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Facepalm
 
RJKarl said:
Toms doesn't give shoes away as they state?
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They absolutely do. I've personally placed over a thousand TOMS shoes on feet (and they've given 10s of thousands to our organization). While their model is changing, one of the major (valid) complaints against them is they often gave shoes without respect to the actual needs of locals - in some places shoes weren't really needed (there were affordable shoes available) and this in turn undercut the local market and leading to rise in unemployment in some places - they've since changed their structure and rely a lot more on giving partners who are on the ground year-round in locations giving a closer connection to those they help and a more accurate understanding of need.
 
IamThunderbolt said:
They absolutely do. I've personally placed over a thousand TOMS shoes on feet (and they've given 10s of thousands to our organization). While their model is changing, one of the major (valid) complaints against them is they often gave shoes without respect to the actual needs of locals - in some places shoes weren't really needed (there were affordable shoes available) and this in turn undercut the local market and leading to rise in unemployment in some places - they've since changed their structure and rely a lot more on giving partners who are on the ground year-round in locations giving a closer connection to those they help and a more accurate understanding of need.
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That's interesting....good stuff, thanks..
 
RJKarl said:
Toms doesn't give shoes away as they state?

RE: Whole Foods - You don't see their stores in the inner-city or less affluent areas. They also seem to spend a lot of money on real estate and FFE. I think their snobbishness is a problem.
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No crap. I make good money and I get sticker shock in there. They wouldn't make it 5 minutes in a low income neighborhood.
 
ChrisL68 said:
No crap. I make good money and I get sticker shock in there. They wouldn't make it 5 minutes in a low income neighborhood.
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There's a reason they are nicknamed "Whole Paycheck."
 
PhDeac said:
Thanks. Seems pretty simple then. Still waiting for either to come to my neck of the woods.
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Trader Joes is pretty cool, but the novelty has worn off for us. We pretty much just buy booze and trail mix/nuts there. Everything else at Harris Teeter.
 
2&2 Slider To Leyritz said:
I don't think that is the case at all. The people who shop at Whole Foods aren't going to suddenly head to WalMart to load up on rotten Asian megafarmed produce. They are hipsters and yuppies and soccer moms who go there as much for the image of being there (and telling others that they shop there) as they do for the products. They just move along to the next-best image-focused establishment like Fresh Market or Earthfare or whatever. They'll find their alternate place to go to buy the same stuff, and the people who are already shopping at WalMart aren't going to be affected at all.
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WakeandBake said:
Facepalm
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As someone who eats at the Whole Foods flagship location here in Austin regularly, he's kind of right. In related news my #trustfund is about to start diminshing quickly if I move into a high rise across the street from that Whole Foods, which is currently the plan. I could live off those 4 to 5 rows of salad and hot bars.
 
You can eat very healthily and cheaply off of Whole Foods. My grocery bill, when I wanted it to, was <10% more expensive than the Shop Rite I used to go to when I lived in South Philly. Now that Whole Foods is the only walkable option in my neighborhood, it's where I go for all my shopping. My bills haven't gone that high. The temptation just becomes to buy more things you don't have at other stores. It's not more expensive than going to a good butcher.

I miss having a big yard where I can grow my own food.
 
We buy as much as we can from TJ's (we have to drive to Winston, thanks stupid NIMBY Greensboro idiots) and Costco. I buy my beer from a locally owned awesome store in my neighborhood. We do a CSA for local produce at a very fair price. Harris Teeter for the rest. When my wife ventures into Whole Foods or Fresh Market and comes back with 2 bags of groceries for $150 my blood pressure goes way, way up. I don't feel like I'm really paying for quality food as much as I'm paying for really expensive real estate, FF&E, and marketing.
 
BillBrasky said:
As someone who eats at the Whole Foods flagship location here in Austin regularly, he's kind of right. In related news my #trustfund is about to start diminshing quickly if I move into a high rise across the street from that Whole Foods, which is currently the plan. I could live off those 4 to 5 rows of salad and hot bars.
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You are saying you go there for the salad and hot bars. 2and2 is saying people go there for the image. You are saying it is too expensive, 2and2 made no such allusion.

2and2 made an anecdotal, opinion-based post about why he thinks WF has customers and what will happen if they go under. It was funny and cynical, but had nothing to do with cost or the perceived benefits of the business model.

On that note, don't the shitty foods cause heart disease, cancer, diabetes, etc? Wouldn't eating healthily reduce your health care costs in the long term? If you were really watching your budget and making long-term financial decisions for yourself and your family, wouldn't spending more on quality food and less on medication and Dr copays and deductibles be more prudent?

Is cheaper food really better for your budget?
 
W&B I was agreeing with him that a large group of people go to Whole Foods to be scene and that if it went away the would just move on to the next trendy thing.

I also enjoying eating there myself, although mainly just already prepared food, as I normally buy my grocery groceries at HEB (the "regular" grocery store chain in Texas) because its cheaper and has a wider variety of items I enjoy consuming. And if I feel like purchasing something organic/grass fed/etc I can buy it there as well.
 
The female talent at Whole Foods in a big city is insanity.
 
WakeandBake said:
You are saying you go there for the salad and hot bars. 2and2 is saying people go there for the image. You are saying it is too expensive, 2and2 made no such allusion.

2and2 made an anecdotal, opinion-based post about why he thinks WF has customers and what will happen if they go under. It was funny and cynical, but had nothing to do with cost or the perceived benefits of the business model.
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Oh it is defintiely too expensive, and I do think that is a specifically contemplated part of their business model. People will pay extra for things just to say they do, and that attitude overlaps with their existing hipster, yuppie, and and soccer mom clientele. So they intentionally charge more than they have to, because they know some people will pay it. It's like why does the yuppie go to Morton's ... is the food any better than probably 12 other steakhouses in the same city that are 1/2 the price? Not really. But he goes there partly so that he can say "last night we were eating at Morton's and ..." And is the Louie Vutton bag that the soccer mom carries any better than a purse from Kohl's? Hell no, but she'll pay 50 times the cost just to be able to wag it around. So if Whole Foods goes under, then another similar place will rise up with purposefully high prices to take its place. There is a distinct market for douchiness that isn't going away.
 
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