Cultural capitalism sucks

[Liquid Karma]

Man I love this board. Professionals who graduated from a leading university sneering at Whole Foods because they can save 10% at a regular store, and waving off the customers who do shop there as trendy phonies, who later on will toss the jacket of their $800 suit into the back seat of their luxury SUV and head off to drink craft beers at $7 a pop while playing golf at a private course with a $1000 set of Pings in a Nike golf shirt and rag on people for being trendy. Fucking love it

It's a set of Titleist irons and an Adidas shirt for me.

 

[Deacon923]

 

[ImTheCaptain]

Man I love this board. Professionals who graduated from a leading university sneering at Whole Foods because they can save 10% at a regular store, and waving off the customers who do shop there as trendy phonies, who later on will toss the jacket of their $800 suit into the back seat of their luxury SUV and head off to drink craft beers at $7 a pop while playing golf at a private course with a $1000 set of Pings in a Nike golf shirt and rag on people for being trendy. Fucking love it

10% over the course of a year is still a lot for food that is exactly the same as sold down the street.

not the same thing as a luxury car vs a Kia or a quality sporting equipment.

 

[WakeandBake]

The point was that it was locally sourced, the employees were paid better and had better bennies, etc. The business is trying to do it the right way like Market Basket - and the same posters who lament the dole and government interference on wages/employment are the first ones complaining when a business sources locally/regionally (good for employment and wages and local business and tax base) and who treats their employees a little better with pay and bennies (good for tax base, health care costs, fewer entitlements paid out) because it costs them 10% more. And they are just as trendy and happily pay more for everything else in their lives like gasoline and tires and sports equipment and clothes. Its hilarious.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

I get what you're saying, and it is amusing to hear rich people complain about a "nominal" surcharge. But i think they complain b/c Whole Foods spends lots of money making their stores look like starbucks to appeal to rich white people's guilt and image-conscious buying habits

once again, if i buy titleist irons, they're more expensive b/c of the brand name but they're actually also superior products

 

[Baconwfu]

Your Whole Foods is only 10% more expensive than your normal grocery store? Either you have a great WF or a shitty normal grocery store

 

[WakeandBake]

i think they complain b/c Whole Foods spends lots of money making their stores look like starbucks to appeal to rich white people's guilt and image-conscious buying habits

once again, if i buy titleist irons, they're more expensive b/c of the brand name but they're actually also superior products

Im saying so what? The store build-out is part of the marketing. They are still doing business the right way, are they not? Who cares if that is why they are attracted to the store if on the back-end WF is actually doing it the right way and even reducing the taxpayer/government role in employment/wages/medicaid etc?

And the Titleist irons are superior to the irons that are 10-20% cheaper? I hear ya. You shoot a better score with Titleist than you do with Mizunos? Im sure that 109 you shot last weekend would have been a 119 with Mizunos LOL

 

[ImTheCaptain]

im not sure they are doing business the right way. tricking rich people into subsidizing higher wages by paying more for experience is smart but, as townie pointed out, depressing and apparently not sustainable

 

[WakeandBake]

Now its a trick? what in the hell are you talking about?

 

[ImTheCaptain]

isn't that what we're talking about? Tricking the consumer into buying an 'experience' or lifestyle or whatever, in this case "sustainable and organic foods"? Rich people can afford to pay inflated prices that WF can then translate into 'better business practices for it's suppliers/employees/stakeholders'.

 

[Deacon923]

I don't think that Whole Foods being expensive is because of what they pay their employees. Trader Joe's and Costco (just two examples, there are probably others) both pay their employees very fairly and sell similar items at a much lower price point than Whole Foods. Whole Foods being expensive IMO is a function of expensive real estate, shiny FFE, heavy marketing, to some extent from sourcing higher quality goods, and to some extent from wanting to attract a premium customer base. I'm not going to spend my grocery budget on overpriced WF products just to support their employment practices - instead, I will spend it on very fairly priced TJ's products and Costco products and still support good employment practices. I think you're reaching a bit here WB.

 

[WakeandBake]

The free market purists here constantly make the point that the government should be out of the wage and regulation and health care game, that if they were just out of the way the market would handle wages and self-regulation and health care. That consumers would take the power by dictating what they want with their dollars. Want higher wages and no entitlements? Support the businesses that pay more. Want a cleaner environment and workplace safety? Support businesses who self-regulate. Want private health care to succeed at keeping costs down and keep the government out? Support businesses who offer good health plans. Want the farmers in your state to profit and have more money to spend at your business? Support local farming.


Along comes a store that tries to do just that and what happens? The same people gripe about those costs being 10% more than the stores who don't do those things.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

yep, and you can also pay for top shelf real estate that comes as an anchor store for your local high-end retail establishments!

 

[WakeandBake]

I don't think that Whole Foods being expensive is because of what they pay their employees. Trader Joe's and Costco (just two examples, there are probably others) both pay their employees very fairly and sell similar items at a much lower price point than Whole Foods. Whole Foods being expensive IMO is a function of expensive real estate, shiny FFE, heavy marketing, to some extent from sourcing higher quality goods, and to some extent from wanting to attract a premium customer base. I'm not going to spend my grocery budget on overpriced WF products just to support their employment practices - instead, I will spend it on very fairly priced TJ's products and Costco products and still support good employment practices. I think you're reaching a bit here WB.

Costco and Trader Joe's sell the same product line as Whole foods and it is locally sourced? Not even close.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

also, have you considered that people are lying when they say they care about locally sourced products or better treatment of employees?

 

[TownieDeac]

The free market purists here constantly make the point that the government should be out of the wage and regulation and health care game, that if they were just out of the way the market would handle wages and self-regulation and health care. That consumers would take the power by dictating what they want with their dollars. Want higher wages and no entitlements? Support the businesses that pay more. Want a cleaner environment and workplace safety? Support businesses who self-regulate. Want private health care to succeed at keeping costs down and keep the government out? Support businesses who offer good health plans. Want the farmers in your state to profit and have more money to spend at your business? Support local farming.


Along comes a store that tries to do just that and what happens? The same people gripe about those costs being 10% more than the stores who don't do those things.

This certainly gets right to the core of the paradox. Companies that try their best to do right by their employees, the shareholders, and the consumer all have a really, really tough time with one of the three.

 

[Deacon923]

Costco and Trader Joe's sell the same product line as Whole foods and it is locally sourced? Not even close.

I'm not aware that a large percentage of WF's items are sourced near Greensboro. Maybe some produce is, but the huge selection of deeee-luxe body lotions and cosmetics and bottle juices and so on and so forth is not. Harris Teeter claims to source quite a bit of its produce locally (which I think they define as within 50 miles or something). I'm willing to bet that more locally produced items move through the Friendly Center Teet on any given day than move through the Friendly Center WF.

And it's not like WF is the only option for locally sourced stuff. I have a CSA with Faucette Farms. I get a big load of produce and eggs from them every Saturday. I actually know where that is and have driven past it. Annually I buy a quarter of a cow from a farm in Burlington. If I can buy and eat ethically and save my family money by not doing it at overpriced Whole Foods, what the heck is wrong with that?

 

[WakeandBake]

That doesn't matter, Cap'n.

I assume they are telling the truth when they complain about entitlements like food stamps and medicaid, and when they stomp their feet about the regulations on their business from the mean ole government.

I assume they are telling the truth when they say that they want higher wages and better bennies to be market driven, not government-forced WITH A GUN.

I assume they are telling the truth when they complain about the Farm Bill.

 

[Deacon923]

This certainly gets right to the core of the paradox. Companies that try their best to do right by their employees, the shareholders, and the consumer all have a really, really tough time with one of the three.

I would say that companies like Costco and TJs prove that you can hit that balance relatively successfully, at least in the retail industry. The problem hits when maximizing shareholder return is fetishized - it is really, really hard to make your Wall Street analysts happy while still doing right by the employees and consumers.

 

[ImTheCaptain]

That doesn't matter, Cap'n.

I assume they are telling the truth when they complain about entitlements like food stamps and medicaid, and when they stomp their feet about the regulations on their business from the mean ole government.

I assume they are telling the truth when they say that they want higher wages and better bennies to be market driven, not government-forced WITH A GUN.

I assume they are telling the truth when they complain about the Farm Bill.

so you're pissed off because politicians attempt to represent some core values and that isn't necessarily reflected in the actions of the average guy buying milk and chicken eggs?