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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

palmab03 said:
In this post , Le bone states that prosser and Dino did not help players get to the NBA, aside from Josh Howard. Citing Big E and Trent Strickland.

Chris Paul, Jeff Teague, James Johnson and Al Farooq Aminu, Ish Smith and their combined half a billion dollars in earnings would disagree.
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All those guys save ish were going to the NBA anyway is my take. All except future hof cp3 have either underachieved in the nba or struggled to find their niche/place. My argument is that Coach Prosser didn't have the skillset or even the minset to ready them for the NBA. Honestly, that wasn't his primary job nor should it have been, but on the flipside because of that big e didn't develop an outside game that would have given him a look. Hell, he didn't even develop a pick and roll game which is almost mandatory. We didn't handle ish/Teague well either. Neither did ph but he wasn't paid.

For me Aminu captures it all. He was always gonna need to either be a 3 or a stretch 4 at the next level, but he didn't prep for that at all at wake. The only argument is you hide his weaknesses by posting him up and let him get paid but i wish he had played under manning. He'd be a different nba player.
 
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macktheknife said:
We can't hire anyone until the FBI probe is over. So I guess we can move on for now.
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I disagree. It would be better to hire someone now after a thorough background check than wait until dozens of programs need a new coach.
 
PhDeac said:
I disagree. It would be better to hire someone now after a thorough background check than wait until dozens of programs need a new coach.
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Exactly. Those that are going to get rolled up in this certainly already have some clue. And any contract could be written with a huge out for Wake.
 
It's a college coach's job to win games. If your prima donna ass makes it to the NBA then good on you. And you have a better chance if your college coach wins games.
 
PhDeac said:
I disagree. It would be better to hire someone now after a thorough background check than wait until dozens of programs need a new coach.
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How does that work? We gonna ask them if they laundered money for Nike? Or do they just say I'm clean and it's all good.
 
Lets hope Duke, UNC and UK are all fucked by the FBI probe. and then we sweep in and get our boy EJ
 
AFA was #7 overall on Rivals and #13 on Scout... There was absolutely a ton of hype. He was a huge recruit for us.
 
macktheknife said:
It's a college coach's job to win games. If your prima donna ass makes it to the NBA then good on you. And you have a better chance if your college coach wins games.
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That is one way to look at it. And obviously, it is a college coach's job to win games (and we haven't done so really for a decade), but it is also a coach's job to prepare a kid for the rest of his life. I would argue in Aminu's case and in Ish's case, we didn't do a great job of that. At all. Some of Aminu's short-comings are certainly on him and on talent. He simply isn't a consistent outside shooter for whatever reason. But we did not insist he develop or try to develop the skills to be an NBA 3 or stretch 4. We posted him up two feet from the basket, threw him lobs and let him run with JJ and Teague. That sort of made since his frosh year, but not his soph year after JJ and Teague were gone. He's made plenty of money so you could argue we got what we needed from him and he got what he needed. But I would argue Manning would have made him a poor man's Danny Manning thus giving him more longevity. Aminu is probably very close to being an NBA veterans exception guy traveling around making $3mil a year. That's good money, but not the $10 mil a year he could make if he were a better player.

Ish is a different story. I honestly do not know how you could do it differently, but he had to work his ass to get to the league. Initially, I think the only reason he made a team was because he was the locker room presence you want in a 12th or 13th man, and he could come in a dribble down the court in 3 seconds at the end of quarters. My memory is that he added something insane like 6 inches to his vertical between his soph and junior years, which resulted in some spectacular blocks. But we never ran back cut alley oops to him which might have highlighted his athleticism for scouts, but that is a quibble. Regardless, the presence of Teague, an obvious 1st round selection the moment he teabagged that Maryland player, resulted in Ish getting lost, both on our team and as an NBA player. And when Ish emerged, Teague got lost and it seemed to confuse scouts. They assumed it was Dino and Teague was fine. I think Teague is a bit of an NBA enigma - a good player who has played exceptional in the playoffs which begs the question, what gives during the regular season? And how come you get lost on defense every 5th or 6th possession?

JJ was always a future NBA player and we did an okay job of developing him. I think he took his talents for granted and due to his charming personality, we essentially allowed that. It was not until he committed to fitness - ironic for a too athletic guy - that he maxed out his $$nba life. Kudos to him, but he as lost 10s of millions of dollars figuring that out.
 
The more troubling piece to me is Strick and LD. Everyone knows and the stories are legend regarding Prosser's life coaching skills. So why have Strick and LD spent a decade on the basketball fringes and not out working a better paying corporate job? Or coaching? Is it not fair to put that on a Coach? And a player has to figure out that their college senior year is going to be their peek (or soph year in Strick's case). Not sure. Regardless, both guys had the personality to move quickly and efficiently into a sales type of job and earn more than the $40,000 year they are likely earning in the G league
 
A couple of quick critiques of the above:

1- AFA did not just camp under the hoop for Wake. He shot a decent amount of 3s (66 as a Sophomore... roughly what Brown has attempted this year or Childress last year). He was NOT a good shooter, but his strength was his freakish athleticism... Was great on the offensive boards. I have no idea what you mean about not preparing him for the NBA.

2- James Johnson was NOT "always a future NBA player." He was ranked #62 by Rivals. I will agree it was apparent that he would be an NBA player pretty early on in his college career, but (again) I'm not sure how you think we didn't develop him. I guess he could have improved his shooting.
 
jaybone said:
The more troubling piece to me is Strick and LD. Everyone knows and the stories are legend regarding Prosser's life coaching skills. So why have Strick and LD spent a decade on the basketball fringes and not out working a better paying corporate job? Or coaching? Is it not fair to put that on a Coach? And a player has to figure out that their college senior year is going to be their peek (or soph year in Strick's case). Not sure. Regardless, both guys had the personality to move quickly and efficiently into a sales type of job and earn more than the $40,000 year they are likely earning in the G league
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Maybe they like playing basketball?

Seems like a huge stretch that you are faulting Prosser for guys making a living playing basketball after Wake Forest.
 
DeacsATS said:
A couple of quick critiques of the above:

1- AFA did not just camp under the hoop for Wake. He shot a decent amount of 3s (66 as a Sophomore... roughly what Brown has attempted this year or Childress last year). He was NOT a good shooter, but his strength was his freakish athleticism... Was great on the offensive boards. I have no idea what you mean about not preparing him for the NBA.

2- James Johnson was NOT "always a future NBA player." He was ranked #62 by Rivals. I will agree it was apparent that he would be an NBA player pretty early on in his college career, but (again) I'm not sure how you think we didn't develop him. I guess he could have improved his shooting.
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Aminu's 3s were awful, not in the flow of the offense. I am saying he is neither an NBA 3 or an NBA 4 and we didn't help him decide. Ditto for JJ. Can Aminu play pick and roll as an NBA 4? The answer is no, which seems insane given his length. JJ can NOW, but didn't learn that skill at Wake. JJ could have improved his shooting and his fitness. Hard to ask a guy so elite size wise and mobility wise to get leaner and stronger, but that is what he had to do to become an NBA rotation guy. We did highlight his ballhandling and playmaking skills, but that was out of our ad hoc offense under Dino IMO.

I did a little digging and Strick has finally quit hoops so far as I can tell and LD finally moved on to Europe, which he should have done immediately.

Interestingly, David Weaver is still playing (in Turkey I think), Jamie Skeen is using his last year of eligibility in Spain, I think. Here is the list of ex-Deacons: http://basketball.usbasket.com/team/ACC/Wake-Forest-University/203?Page=4
 
What a weird post.

They also can do that shit once they can no longer play basketball anymore. Where's the fire?
 
DeacsATS said:
Maybe they like playing basketball?

Seems like a huge stretch that you are faulting Prosser for guys making a living playing basketball after Wake Forest.
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Fair enough. My point is you got to know when to hold up, know when to fold up, know when to walk away, and know when to run. Chris King comes to mind. Did we prepare Chris King for life? That was Prosser's thing so I was a little surprised to see Strickland hanging on to the Austin D League team despite not getting on the court for them for several years longer than he likely should have. You want a life in basketball? Follow Danny Manning's path. Go hold towels and arrange flights for two years, then get that spot on the bench and work yourself up. Strickland is now a branch manager at an Enterprise Rent A Car in Austin per his linkedin profile. Maybe that is a good gig, I have no idea. Austin is nice, so there is that.

LD totally had the personality to be an assistant coach somewhere when he wants it, if he works for it. I am glad to see he is in Europe finally. I found Chris Ellis highlights FROM LAST YEAR. That dude is still playing ball. In Mexico. His highlights look like he is playing in a YMCA gym there.
 
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