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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

i just don't think everyone shares Bone's opinion that college coaches are more than win (revenue) generators
 
bone throwing up some of the weirdest takes I've ever read on here.
 
jaybone said:
That is one way to look at it. And obviously, it is a college coach's job to win games (and we haven't done so really for a decade), but it is also a coach's job to prepare a kid for the rest of his life. I would argue in Aminu's case and in Ish's case, we didn't do a great job of that. At all. Some of Aminu's short-comings are certainly on him and on talent. He simply isn't a consistent outside shooter for whatever reason. But we did not insist he develop or try to develop the skills to be an NBA 3 or stretch 4. We posted him up two feet from the basket, threw him lobs and let him run with JJ and Teague. That sort of made since his frosh year, but not his soph year after JJ and Teague were gone. He's made plenty of money so you could argue we got what we needed from him and he got what he needed. But I would argue Manning would have made him a poor man's Danny Manning thus giving him more longevity. Aminu is probably very close to being an NBA veterans exception guy traveling around making $3mil a year. That's good money, but not the $10 mil a year he could make if he were a better player.

Ish is a different story. I honestly do not know how you could do it differently, but he had to work his ass to get to the league. Initially, I think the only reason he made a team was because he was the locker room presence you want in a 12th or 13th man, and he could come in a dribble down the court in 3 seconds at the end of quarters. My memory is that he added something insane like 6 inches to his vertical between his soph and junior years, which resulted in some spectacular blocks. But we never ran back cut alley oops to him which might have highlighted his athleticism for scouts, but that is a quibble. Regardless, the presence of Teague, an obvious 1st round selection the moment he teabagged that Maryland player, resulted in Ish getting lost, both on our team and as an NBA player. And when Ish emerged, Teague got lost and it seemed to confuse scouts. They assumed it was Dino and Teague was fine. I think Teague is a bit of an NBA enigma - a good player who has played exceptional in the playoffs which begs the question, what gives during the regular season? And how come you get lost on defense every 5th or 6th possession?

JJ was always a future NBA player and we did an okay job of developing him. I think he took his talents for granted and due to his charming personality, we essentially allowed that. It was not until he committed to fitness - ironic for a too athletic guy - that he maxed out his $$nba life. Kudos to him, but he as lost 10s of millions of dollars figuring that out.
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Aminu is in the 4th year of a 4 year 30 million contract. No idea where you are pulling that 3 million number from.
 
jaybone said:
The more troubling piece to me is Strick and LD. Everyone knows and the stories are legend regarding Prosser's life coaching skills. So why have Strick and LD spent a decade on the basketball fringes and not out working a better paying corporate job? Or coaching? Is it not fair to put that on a Coach? And a player has to figure out that their college senior year is going to be their peek (or soph year in Strick's case). Not sure. Regardless, both guys had the personality to move quickly and efficiently into a sales type of job and earn more than the $40,000 year they are likely earning in the G league
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It's not at all fair ot put it on the coach and is a truly bizarre take. To be kept around the G League lends one to think he had been told he had a shot to make the jump. Also, we have no idea who LD was doing in the off-season. Further, he could have made contacts around the league by playing.

Add to all of that, when you are young, you can do more things you like to do. I'm sure Skip told them to enjoy their lives as well.
 
Perhaps. I have been called bizarre and weird before. But i trying to get at an outlier discussion. Since elite college programs have become essentially NBA factory one and done or two and done shops, Kentucky and now even Duke are doing a good job of preparing their 5star kids for the NBA. At least that is what recent history shows for Duke and 10 years of history shows for Kentucky. What about the next tier or the next tier wannabes like Wake?

Let's table Prosser. He was a great man, a story teller, and a very good basketball coach.

What about Danny Manning? As much as I like the guy, fuck if I'd want to stuck in a tent with him in Base Camp on Everest for a month. He doesn't strike me as the consummate story teller. Maybe I am wrong, but his personality doesn't exude that I want to hang out with this guy because he seems fun-loving. I'd more likely want to hire him as an accountant and spend 30 minutes with him a year. However, dude played NBA hoops forever, was a high school and college phenom, and has a message and a story to tell every kid with NBA aspirations which has allowed him to build a marketable brand despite a paint drying personality (at least outwardly).

So far, if you are a borderline NBA talent and are 6'9" or taller, Wake Forest seems like an ideal place to learn the craft. Guard? So far, he and Chill have NOT made Brandon Crawford an NBA player. Nor Codi Miller-Mac.

Everyone right now besides Kentucky and Duke are essentially working to get the kids 11-90 who might make it to the NBA some day with work and preparation. John Collins is going to ring in the ears of prospects for a while. Remove Manning and that is over. We need another CP3 or Ish Smith to walk through the door and be coachable. Kansas always seemed to have goodish but not NBA quality point guards. As did Dean Smith's Carolina teams most years sans Phil Ford. Maybe that is what we should be shooting for. Hell, I pine for CJ Harris right now. Crawford did show signs against GTech. In year 3. With 6 games left. But he did score 20+ points and had zer o turnovers. Let's hope he can keep that up and build some momentum into a senior year campaign and we can turn the corner.

I think our brand is close especially if we turn a few more John Collins or Doral Moore's into NBA contracts and the 5 stars we do get, we help get there as well.
 
GPDeac said:
Aminu is in the 4th year of a 4 year 30 million contract. No idea where you are pulling that 3 million number from.
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He's totally overpaid. He's in a dumb contract that sucks for Portland. He won't get anywhere near that again because he is a flawed player. Mark it down, he'll be on $3mil 1 year contracts from here out.
 
At the risk of sounding uncouth, Skip Prosser died more than a decade ago... I think that absolves him of any responsibility for what LD, Strickland, or Ellis are doing in 2018.

Let's just go back to talking about Wes Miller... That made more sense.
 
RJKarl said:
It's not at all fair ot put it on the coach and is a truly bizarre take. To be kept around the G League lends one to think he had been told he had a shot to make the jump. Also, we have no idea who LD was doing in the off-season. Further, he could have made contacts around the league by playing.

Add to all of that, when you are young, you can do more things you like to do. I'm sure Skip told them to enjoy their lives as well.
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Strick had no shot to make the jump. None. Neither did LD. In one paragraph, you argue we have no idea of stuff and the in the second paragraph, you are making up stuff that Prosser likely told players. Plus, enjoying ones life and forging a professional path are not mutually exclusive, you can pursue both.
 
You know what best prepares these one and dones for the NBA? Their freakish basketball talent and athletic ability.
 
DeacsATS said:
You know what best prepares these one and dones for the NBA? Their freakish basketball talent and athletic ability.
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Exactly. Which is why Kentucky and Duke aren't earning my praise. Marvin Bagley doesn't need Coach K and Coach K hasn't done anything for Bagley's NBA future. Somehow though, Coach K is selling players one some Duke basketball brand that will result in marketing money down the road. At least if you are to believe Calipari. That is some rogue shit if you ask me, but I guess has some validity.

If Calipari had non basketball smarts, he'd figure out how many people are owed money by Christian Laettner and peddle that story to a magazine. If he's annoyed Coach K is using his 35-year brand to win player,, even for a year, he should chip at the brand rather than bitch and moan about it. He should look in the mirror.

But again, it doesn't take anything to get Marvin Bagley ready for the NBA. It does take a lot to get Trevon Duval ready. Duke will likely recruit over him and he will transfer. And it is the Trevon Duval stories - and there are plenty - that future recruits should be weary of. Because if you are not Marvin Bagley and instead Marquis Bolden, you are going to be frustrated and maybe even have your future detrimentally affected.
 
jaybone said:
Exactly. Which is why Kentucky and Duke aren't earning my praise. Marvin Bagley doesn't need Coach K and Coach K hasn't done anything for Bagley's NBA future. Somehow though, Coach K is selling players one some Duke basketball brand that will result in marketing money down the road
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Maybe they want to spend their one year in college winning? For the coach who among title winners had the team that was most one-and-done heavy?

These concepts don't seem that hard to grasp
 
jaybone said:
Strick had no shot to make the jump. None. Neither did LD. In one paragraph, you argue we have no idea of stuff and the in the second paragraph, you are making up stuff that Prosser likely told players. Plus, enjoying ones life and forging a professional path are not mutually exclusive, you can pursue both.
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You don't know what you are talking about. Your premise is baseless and ridiculous.
 
I remember alot of criticism that we were letting J Johnson roam the perimeter as an NBA prep move when he would have dominated at a more traditional PF slot in college.
 
jaybone said:
It does take a lot to get Trevon Duval ready. Duke will likely recruit over him and he will transfer. And it is the Trevon Duval stories - and there are plenty - that future recruits should be weary of.
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Perhaps not germane to your point, but Duval still (inexplicably) projects as a 1st round NBA pick THIS YEAR.

I get your point on others that get recruited over, but Duval will seemingly be just fine.
 
wsc8521s said:
Maybe they want to spend their one year in college winning? For the coach who among title winners had the team that was most one-and-done heavy?

These concepts don't seem that hard to grasp
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Dude. I'm okay with bile. But your lack of ambitious parsing of language prevents your small little mind from understanding I'M NOT ARGUING THAT. There, how's that for reciprocative bile?

Bagley should have gone to Duke. Or Kentucky. Good for him. And good for Duke to figure out they could get him through high school a year early. Great job. But. If you are Tevon Duval or Marquis Bolden, you may be fucked. You are going to be recruited over and no Duke recruit who has underachieved and been recruited over and then transferred has made the NBA.
 
DeacsATS said:
Perhaps not germane to your point, but Duval still (inexplicably) projects as a 1st round NBA pick THIS YEAR.

I get your point on others that get recruited over, but Duval will seemingly be just fine.
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We'll see. I'm surprised. I haven't seen an NBA player. But I also don't think that's fair to ask 99% of freshmen. John Collins wasn't an NBA player coming in either and obviously that is exactly my point. Is Duke the right place to go these days if you are not nearly ready for the NBA when you walk in the door (and future recruits at your position may be).
 
DeacsATS said:
You know what best prepares these one and dones for the NBA? Their freakish basketball talent and athletic ability.
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this.

I know this is probably an unpopular opinion, but coaching is going to become less and less important as the game continues to evolve. Recruiting will be 90% of the college game with player development being the other 10%.
 
ChrisL68 said:
I remember alot of criticism that we were letting J Johnson roam the perimeter as an NBA prep move when he would have dominated at a more traditional PF slot in college.
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This 100% happened. As did people criticizing Aminu taking 3s, which the coaching staff was obviously fine with.
 
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