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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

RJKarl said:
So everything I say is an absolute, but you making inane suppositions isn't. and you would be wrong.
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You are having a nonsense day where nothing you type actually make sense. They happen but you should stop typing.
 
An honest question, because I genuinely don't recall. How long has it been since we had a bball season where there wasn't a long, drawn-out, season/year-long conversation about whether our current coach was cutting it?

I don't think there was such a season under Dino, but I don't really recall. I remember after Skip's flirtation with Pitt that after that there was some discussion around "would we have been better if he just left" and the post-CP3 year/disaster and all of that.

Just curious exactly how long it's been since we had a season where at least the vast majority of folks thought "hey, this is working pretty well, this is our guy" from a big-picture standpoint.
 
DCDeacon said:
An honest question, because I genuinely don't recall. How long has it been since we had a bball season where there wasn't a long, drawn-out, season/year-long conversation about whether our current coach was cutting it?

I don't think there was such a season under Dino, but I don't really recall. I remember after Skip's flirtation with Pitt that after that there was some discussion around "would we have been better if he just left" and the post-CP3 year/disaster and all of that.

Just curious exactly how long it's been since we had a season where at least the vast majority of folks thought "hey, this is working pretty well, this is our guy" from a big-picture standpoint.
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Probably the TJDK season w/ Josh Howard in 2002-03. But even that would have had some discussion after the loss to Auburn.
Maybe even the year before that where we lost some close, painful ones late (@ Maryland) and finished up by losing to Oregon in a "what if?" game that wasn't really pinned on Prosser, from what I can remember.
 
I think we're hardly alone in failing to develop guys. I can't think of that many cases where a coach has consistently turned moderately to lowly recruited guys into long-time NBA performers. Perhaps Tony Bennett has done a sneaky good job in this area, but no one really wants to play for him given his teams' style of play.

At the end of the day coaches are going to use players to win games, and whatever development occurs will be to meet that objective. Maybe that's not right, but also just kinda how it is
 
jaybone said:
That is one way to look at it. And obviously, it is a college coach's job to win games (and we haven't done so really for a decade), but it is also a coach's job to prepare a kid for the rest of his life. I would argue in Aminu's case and in Ish's case, we didn't do a great job of that. At all. Some of Aminu's short-comings are certainly on him and on talent. He simply isn't a consistent outside shooter for whatever reason. But we did not insist he develop or try to develop the skills to be an NBA 3 or stretch 4. We posted him up two feet from the basket, threw him lobs and let him run with JJ and Teague. That sort of made since his frosh year, but not his soph year after JJ and Teague were gone. He's made plenty of money so you could argue we got what we needed from him and he got what he needed. But I would argue Manning would have made him a poor man's Danny Manning thus giving him more longevity. Aminu is probably very close to being an NBA veterans exception guy traveling around making $3mil a year. That's good money, but not the $10 mil a year he could make if he were a better player.

Ish is a different story. I honestly do not know how you could do it differently, but he had to work his ass to get to the league. Initially, I think the only reason he made a team was because he was the locker room presence you want in a 12th or 13th man, and he could come in a dribble down the court in 3 seconds at the end of quarters. My memory is that he added something insane like 6 inches to his vertical between his soph and junior years, which resulted in some spectacular blocks. But we never ran back cut alley oops to him which might have highlighted his athleticism for scouts, but that is a quibble. Regardless, the presence of Teague, an obvious 1st round selection the moment he teabagged that Maryland player, resulted in Ish getting lost, both on our team and as an NBA player. And when Ish emerged, Teague got lost and it seemed to confuse scouts. They assumed it was Dino and Teague was fine. I think Teague is a bit of an NBA enigma - a good player who has played exceptional in the playoffs which begs the question, what gives during the regular season? And how come you get lost on defense every 5th or 6th possession?

JJ was always a future NBA player and we did an okay job of developing him. I think he took his talents for granted and due to his charming personality, we essentially allowed that. It was not until he committed to fitness - ironic for a too athletic guy - that he maxed out his $$nba life. Kudos to him, but he as lost 10s of millions of dollars figuring that out.
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Teague posterized the Maryland player right before the ACCT during 2009, his sophomore year. We lost to Maryland in the first round of the ACCT, lost to CS, and Teague was gone. Ish couldn’t shoot. Period. I always thought Prosser should have gotten Ish to work with a shooting coach.
 
jaybone said:
If either guy did that, I would agree with you. But they didn't. They both did the G league (or lower) tour for 5 years thinking this was their ticket to the NBA. At last look, neither earned even a 10-day contract in the NBA so they both would have been better suited to go to Spain or Turkey or Russia or Italy or France or Switzerland or Finland or Belgium to earn better money, sleep with Euro chicks, and enjoy other Euro experiences like culture and food.
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LD played in Asia for a few season and is now in Europe. I don't know about Trent, but it's not like he will be 58 when he finally gives it up. He'll be in his early 30's and can get a second career going at that point. Jeez, go easy on these guys. Seems like pretty good advice: "Hey man when you're young, do what you love and enjoy it before the responsibilities pile on and you have to get a serious job and worry about your retirement fund. Who knows, maybe you'll even get a chance at your dream job in the process." I definitely should have taken a few more years traveling around the country doing fun, low paying field ornithology jobs before going back to grad school.
 
Got to follow your dreams. Play for as long as you love it and as long as you can. For those with the talent to get paid to play ball, would never begrudge them for "hanging on" as long as they can.
 
Buttermaker said:
He should but he doesn't.
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Perhaps that is what happened to me this morning as well. I do think it is interesting the brand sell Coach K is now successfully peddling in order to stay ahead of Kentucky talent-wise. In a weird way, I think it leaves an opening. First, Villanova has branded themselves the place to go to play in a 3+ year system and challenge for the national title every year. Butler did it, also under an elite coach, and UVa is doing it as well. Since Duke up until basically Kyrie Irving was doing that too, our challenge was greater, I think. Back then, the top 10 players were going to Kentucky or Ohio State or some other place and we were fighting with both Carolina and Duke for players which was damn near impossible except for home grown boys like CP3 and Josh Howard or gifts like Tim Duncan (arguably).

Now, there is an opening with the right brand to have a legit shot at the #11-#25 ranked players, which we have proven by snagging Hoard, a player most likely on Duke's radar 10 years ago, but today, a backup to a backup option. But we have to be playing better basketball for it to continue. And honestly, we need to grab an elite big again quick. Prosser was going for the same elite athlete that Manning is going for, but he had to do it with class, style, charisma and chutzpah. Let's be honest, chutzpah, to Manning, is something he might put on his bagel. Charisma is something he wears on his finger (championship ring). He does have a style and he certainly has class. He's also a hard worker. These are attributes that play well, along with his player pedigree, with parents. But he has to win games. And he needs to do so now, as in the last half dozen games and next year.

Not because his job is at stake this year, but because Coach K is going to die soon, or have a stroke, or retire - unless that deal he made with the devil is real. When he does, Duke might be fucked. If they were still on that path of finding 2-4 year elite college players, they could probably go right on chugging along as a perennial contender, but I think they will suffer quickly in this new model. Unless Duke goes bold and lets Bobby Hurley and Grant Hill march in and do things "their" way and they kick out or down the bench the ex-Duke PGs that collect on the Duke bench like kindling. In other words, I don't Wojo is going to be able do what Coach K is doing now. That's our opening. If we are positioned well. Right now we aren't.
 
I bet coach K coaches at least 4 more seasons. I could see him coaching up to 8 more
 
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