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Danny Manning Credibility Watch

RChildress107 said:
I doubt that.
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9-19 ATS in 2017-18 would indicate that the books seriously overvalued WF coming off of that dream season

but hey, the important thing is that Manning kept his losses closer than Buzz, so even though Buzz won more games against essentially the same ACC schedule, Manning clearly had a better season

and in 2015-2016, when Buzz won 10 ACC games and Manning won 2, neither made the field of 64, so that's a tie

Advantage Manning! Met Expectations!
 
thatguy2016 said:
9-19 ATS in 2017-18 would indicate that the books seriously overvalued WF coming off of that dream season

but hey, the important thing is that Manning kept his losses closer than Buzz, so even though Buzz won more games against essentially the same ACC schedule, Manning clearly had a better season

and in 2015-2016, when Buzz won 10 ACC games and Manning won 2, neither made the field of 64, so that's a tie

Advantage Manning! Met Expectations!
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When your claims about year 3 don’t hold up, talk about years 2 and 4 instead. Can’t fault you for trying to change the subject. I’ve stated ad nauseum that Manning sucked both of those years and should have been fired after year 4 under normal circumstances.
 
RChildress107 said:
When your claims about year 3 don’t hold up, talk about years 2 and 4 instead. Can’t fault you for trying to change the subject. I’ve stated ad nauseum that Manning sucked both of those years and should have been fired after year 4 under normal circumstances.
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my claims about year 3 hold up just fine, and I'm not changing the subject

in 2016-17, Manning beat some shitty teams and had a worse year than Buzz Williams; an algorithm that says otherwise needs to be tweaked

you've stated ad nauseum that Manning "met expectations" in year 2, and that is laughably wrong - so I'll bring it up from time to time
 
thatguy2016 said:
my claims about year 3 hold up just fine, and I'm not changing the subject

in 2016-17, Manning beat some shitty teams and had a worse year than Buzz Williams; an algorithm that says otherwise needs to be tweaked

you've stated ad nauseum that Manning "met expectations" in year 2, and that is laughably wrong - so I'll bring it up from time to time
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Lol. That algorithm has done just fine, mainly because it doesn’t overreact to single events.

I’ve stated ad nauseum that Manning “met my expectations”, a purely subjective standard. At the time I was the only one willing to set out and defend expectations for a coach taking over our program in 2014.

And your discussion about Buzz vs Manning in year 3 is proving my point for me.
 
thatguy2016 said:
cool

here's hoping for some close losses the rest of the way!
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My expectations for any coach taking over our program in 2014 would be to suck for two years. I didn’t particularly care how much they sucked as long as they didn’t move backwards. I get that you would have preferred a few more wins over shitty teams and closer losses to good teams those first two years, but that doesn’t really move the needle for me.
 
RChildress107 said:
When your claims about year 3 don’t hold up, talk about years 2 and 4 instead. Can’t fault you for trying to change the subject. I’ve stated ad nauseum that Manning sucked both of those years and should have been fired after year 4 under normal circumstances.
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That’s bullshit. You were the main one saying Manning shouldn’t have been fired in March.
 
RChildress107 said:
My expectations for any coach taking over our program in 2014 would be to suck for two years. I didn’t particularly care how much they sucked as long as they didn’t move backwards. I get that you would have preferred a few more wins over shitty teams and closer losses to good teams those first two years, but that doesn’t really move the needle for me.
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In short, context is the only thing that matters when it benefits you...but you dismiss it when it makes your subjective opinions that you keep referring to as "facts" look bad.
 
Manning will make the same mistakes tonight he made in s1 g1. He is the coach he is. That's why any extra credit he gets for year 3 should be placed squarely at the feet of collins. The only reason that team made first 4 is because collins had an historically good season on a mediocre (at best) team while overcoming a terrible coach.
 
PhDeac said:
That’s bullshit. You were the main one saying Manning shouldn’t have been fired in March.
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We weren’t under normal circumstances.

It’s pretty rare to have a coach that you shouldn’t fire even if you can upgrade (Duke shouldn’t fire K even if they are convinced that Stevens is a better coach and available).

It’s also pretty rare (though less so) to have a coach you should fire even if you have to downgrade. The coach has to do something so egregious that act of keeping him would be just as embarrassing to the program/school as the egregious act the coach committed. This is typically some off court incident, but bad enough results can reach this level (see [Redacted]’s first two years).

Manning has never been in either category (Though he’s trending quickly towards the latter) so the question about whether to fire him has always been “will our AD bring in someone better?” If we had a great AD, the answer would have been yes anytime after year 2. If we had a bad AD the answer would have been yes after year 4. Unfortunately we have Wellman.
 
RChildress107 said:
We weren’t under normal circumstances.

It’s pretty rare to have a coach that you shouldn’t fire even if you can upgrade (Duke shouldn’t fire K even if they are convinced that Stevens is a better coach and available).

It’s also pretty rare (though less so) to have a coach you should fire even if you have to downgrade. The coach has to do something so egregious that act of keeping him would be just as embarrassing to the program/school as the egregious act the coach committed. This is typically some off court incident, but bad enough results can reach this level (see [Redacted]’s first two years).

Manning has never been in either category (Though he’s trending quickly towards the latter) so the question about whether to fire him has always been “will our AD bring in someone better?” If we had a great AD, the answer would have been yes anytime after year 2. If we had a bad AD the answer would have been yes after year 4. Unfortunately we have Wellman.
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ABH. Always Be Hedging.
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RacerDeac said:
In short, context is the only thing that matters when it benefits you...but you dismiss it when it makes your subjective opinions that you keep referring to as "facts" look bad.
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Nope. I’m comfortable parsing different levels of sucking at basketball. But my expectations were always that it would take a new coach until at least year three to reach what should be the bare minimum level of success at Wake, that we’d spend a couple of years at or slightly above that level, and then we’d have the type of 4-5 year stretch we saw under Odom and Skip. I didn’t give a shit if the progress was perfectly linear as long as we didn’t move backwards and hit those benchmarks.
 
deaconson said:
Manning will make the same mistakes tonight he made in s1 g1. He is the coach he is. That's why any extra credit he gets for year 3 should be placed squarely at the feet of collins. The only reason that team made first 4 is because collins had an historically good season on a mediocre (at best) team while overcoming a terrible coach.
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Yup.
 
The easy answer is he didn’t have to play Virginia. But I imagine he did play teams like Houston Baptist and Delaware State. He only really won in Feb and March one season. And he parlayed that into 5+ years of $$$$.
 
PhDeac said:
The easy answer is he didn’t have to play Virginia. But I imagine he did play teams like Houston Baptist and Delaware State. He only really won in Feb and March one season. And he parlayed that into 5+ years of $$$$.
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Conference was trash too -- he hit the perfect sweet spot between Memphis bolting for the AAC and Tulsa bolting themselves.

I also forgot Tulsa started 4-9 the year he made the NCAAT. Yikes. He really parlayed one hot stretch from his team into all of the above
 
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