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Elko DOES leave Notre Dame to take DC spot at A&M

PhDeac said:
I’m glad you understood his point. I didn’t. No one is comparing compensation across the university. People love shitcloud these discussions without realizing models already exist for compensating students.
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You are arguing for compensating student athletes like graduate students. My point is that they are already much better compensated than graduate students. This can't be that hard to follow.
 
Rafi said:
You are arguing for compensating student athletes like graduate students. My point is that they are already much better compensated than graduate students. This can't be that hard to follow.
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Rafi, the problem is -- and Ph knows this -- that once you start arguing about the level of compensation, you've accepted his premise and he's won and you've lost. Abandon this argument, it's a loser.
 
Lohengrin said:
Rafi, the problem is -- and Ph knows this -- that once you start arguing about the level of compensation, you've accepted his premise and he's won and you've lost. Abandon this argument, it's a loser.
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I disagree. Denying that benefits (or compensation, whatever you want to call it) goes to student athletes is denying the truth. They do get benefits when on full scholarship, that's just reality. However, that doesn't mean being a student athlete is a job. There are other students that get benefits for academics, art, etc. and those also are not jobs.
 
Elko DOES leave Notre Dame to take DC spot at A&M

Rafi said:
You are arguing for compensating student athletes like graduate students. My point is that they are already much better compensated than graduate students. This can't be that hard to follow.
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Are they? I just don’t think that this is true. For instance, I think that you are understating the figurative and literal value of access that professional and graduate students have to academic journals, libraries, foundation funding, and faculty grants, among other amenities. That’s even before health care and tuition, which many universities pay on behalf of graduate students (though not professional students).

Stipends and academic labor wages exist on top of this bedrock. It’s actually a pretty good model for college athletes, imo. Most universities can offer a significant chunk of its student bodies this form of compensation.
 
Rafi said:
I disagree. Denying that benefits (or compensation, whatever you want to call it) goes to student athletes is denying the truth. They do get benefits when on full scholarship, that's just reality. However, that doesn't mean being a student athlete is a job. There are other students that get benefits for academics, art, etc. and those also are not jobs.
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Rafi, do you know legal concepts? "Compensation" is a legal term of art. Scholarships are not compensation. Nor is room and board. If they were, they would be taxed. If it were compensation, WFU would be out of sports. Terminology matters.
 
Lohengrin said:
Rafi, do you know legal concepts? "Compensation" is a legal term of art. Scholarships are not compensation. Nor is room and board. If they were, they would be taxed. If it were compensation, WFU would be out of sports. Terminology matters.
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OK. We're not having a legal discussion here, but I'm fine with using a different term. Are you OK with benefit?
 
But... the main point is that colleges are not required to give value to any extracurricular activity participants. Just like walk-ons. The value scholarship athletes receive are entirely voluntary on the part of the institution.
 
Deacfreak07 said:
How someone can believe in capitalism as an ideal, and be opposed to athletes making the money they make. I just seem to hear a lot of complaints about that from conservatives, and it always seemed odd to me because they are generating revenue. I think it has more to do with a devaluing of labor relative to capital than anything if I had to label it, but maybe I’m wrong.
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I'd probably be labeled as a conservative and have no issue with athletes making the money they make. I think athletes in college, especially at Wake Forest, get paid very well. At least 64k a year, entrance to a top 25 university (that many wouldn't have a chance to get in to without football), among other benefits.
 
Lohengrin said:
Rafi, do you know legal concepts? "Compensation" is a legal term of art. Scholarships are not compensation. Nor is room and board. If they were, they would be taxed. If it were compensation, WFU would be out of sports. Terminology matters.
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Room and board is taxed. My father paid taxes on my room and board.
 
Also, athletes receive NCAA-mandated wads of cash all the time; they get to travel to cool places, and don't have to worry about housing or food for four or five years. They may not be compensated equivalently to how much money they make the school, but it's a pretty good deal for the kids. It's also pretty fun to be an athlete.
 
On further reflection, the value received by scholarship athletes would most accurately be termed "inducements". Value given in order to induce the scholarship athlete to attend and play his or her sport at WFU. It is definitely not, and never has been, compensation.
 
Strickland33 said:
Are they? I just don’t think that this is true. For instance, I think that you are understating the figurative and literal value of access that professional and graduate students have to academic journals, libraries, foundation funding, and faculty grants, among other amenities. That’s even before health care and tuition, which many universities pay on behalf of graduate students (though not professional students).

Stipends and academic labor wages exist on top of this bedrock. It’s actually a pretty good model for college athletes, imo. Most universities can offer a significant chunk of its student bodies this form of compensation.
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Strick, the argument that access to journals and libraries makes graduate students better compensated than scholarship student athletes is a really weak argument. Not to mention that athletes have this same access plus access to many other benefits that other students do not (training table, free tutoring, sports med, etc).
 
Lohengrin said:
I wouldn't have thought that, but it's good to know. I assume it has to do with the nature of the benefit under tax theory. Perhaps the same with other scholarships as well.
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Rafi accepts your apology.
 
Lohengrin said:
Rafi knows a lot about AD operations and details. I know a lot about legal arguments. I didn't insult Rafi. At least intentionally.
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Ha, I don't know anything about AD operations and details.
 
Former WF assistant, Clark Lea, who Elko took with him is being promoted to ND DC.
 
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